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Drinks+ Editor-in-chief interviewed one of the world’s famous cocktail masters – Signor Javier de las Muelas. He shared his bartending career path from his first bar Gimlet to Dry Martini The Academy, discussing perspectives, inspiration sources, and personal preferences.

Why did you choose this path? Where did you study? Could you tell us, if possible, about your childhood? What are the most vivid memories of the little Javier? Your parents were not involved in the bar industry, were they?

My passion for the bar and restaurant trade began when I was about three years old, on the early Saturday morning visits to the Boqueria Market in Barcelona where my parents would do our weekly food shopping. As a treat, we would have breakfast in Bar Pinotxo, presided over by the great Juanito. Joan Bayeu, known to one and all as Juanito, a wonderful person, a magnificent professional, with a charmingly flirtatious compliment for any woman who sat on one of the stools or walked past his bar. Though neither of us knew it at the time, he was my first mentor.

My passion continued to grow when at the age of six, I would spend hours and hours after school in the wine shop opposite our house, Can Tarafa, helping the owner to sell wine. If I close my eyes, I am back there again: the smell of the wooden barrels, the call-and-response conversations. All these experiences left an indelible impression on me, one that has stayed with me right up to today.

My parents were not engaged in the bar industry. My father was a master shoemaker; he made shoes to measure, shaping the finest leather on wooden lasts with supreme care and attention. He taught me to appreciate and value the importance of small details, the true significance of a trade and its unpretentiousness. In my opinion, shoes say a lot about the person wearing them, about their way of being. Shoes are a sign of one’s identity. Wearing well-polished, impeccable shoes is both a pleasure and a mark of distinction.

In one of the interviews, I have read that you were going to become a doctor. The professions of a doctor and a bartender are not similar at all. Unless there is something in common with psychiatrists 🙂. 

Yes, I have started my career as a medic. My chosen course was medicine, and there I took my first steps in psychiatry (or rather the anti-psychiatry that was all the rage in those years). At my 18, I used to go to Boadas, a very famous bar on the most well-known street in Barcelona. It was a very small place owned by a barmaid who created a magical ambience. She was always there preparing the drinks with a lovely attitude and presentation. What concerns me, from that time I understood the importance of working with clients, to serve them, to provide with a good service in some creative way.

The things that I find the most interesting about bars are the atmosphere created in them and their potential as catalysts of human relations. Bars are the sets for life’s films, in black and white, or in colour. Bars are the perfect scenography: so many love stories begin there, after the classic: ‘Why don’t we meet for a drink?’

The service in bartending is very important, how you work at the bar, how you serve the cocktail – so the main things are the client and the service, the openness and benevolence. I always work behind the bar with 100% positive emotions, because client is 100% important.

One afternoon, I had the idea of looking for a place in the Born which in those days was the most bohemian district of Barcelona. As luck (that essential ingredient in life) would have it, that same afternoon I met the owner of a bar who was about to retire and wanted to sell the license and lease of his premises. That place became my first bar Gimlet.

We opened with no money, with a single cocktail shaker, with no stools, with none of the brass-buttoned white Mao jackets that I loved so much, but with an immeasurable stock of optimism, enthusiasm, and passion, with the energy of twenty-somethings and the support of our friends who turned customers. And we struck just the right note with our version of the classic viewed through modern eyes. True, back then we had no idea how to make cocktails, but we studied, practiced, and practiced again, and from the day we opened the cocktails were impeccable. And here I must thank another of my mentors, Epi Vallejo, who wrote a marvelous book from which I learned the art of mixing: Manual del Barman.

I would like to mention that nowadays not many bartenders understand what creativity is, there are too many professionals in single labels. But what is important, it is the base, the classic cocktails. The service in bartending is very important, how you work at the bar, how you serve the cocktail – so the main things are the client and the service, the openness and benevolence. I always work behind the bar with 100% positive emotions, because client is 100% important.

Ah! And what about the career in medicine? The idea just dissolved away like a lump of brown sugar.

In 2019, you became a member of the Catalan Academy of Gastronomy and Nutrition and in the same year received two major awards: from FEBE Federación Española de Bebidas Espirituosas and HELEN DAVID LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD (the highest award in the cocktail world, presented at the 13th annual gala SPIRITED AWARDS THE TALES OF THE COCKTAIL in New Orleans, the world’s most prestigious cocktail competition). It seems to me that a good deal of mixologists must have goosebumps when they hear these words. All this is very honorable and prestigious! How did you achieve these awards, were they given for specific projects or contribution in general?

Actually, I am very happy to take part in such events and be commended for these achievements. But for me personally it is not very important, it is dedicated to my team with which I work with. To our clients, to everything that I do working behind the bar.

The bar culture is developing more and more intensively every year; there are a lot of competitions – local, international, thematic. Firstly, how often have you participated in such events? What kind of contests were they? Secondly, have you ever thought of the idea to create a competition from Javier de las Muelas?

I am not found of these types of events, and I am not too much in it. It is more important for me the future of the Bar as a project that could work for many years and has its own history. For me bar is a very social thing where people are talking and living a part of their lives. The main thing is the long life of the bar. Bars are a part of people’s lives. I understood this one day when I was having a coffee at a bar and another customer came over to me and asked if I was Javier de las Muelas. ‘I’d like to thank you because the bars and restaurants created by people like you are a part of Barcelona. I’ve laughed in them, I’ve fallen in love, I’ve cried and now I take my children there. You’re part of my life.’ We hugged each other and I smiled and thanked him.

Who are the students of Dry Martini The Academy? Are there any student selection criteria?

The Academy for us is the space connecting with Dry Martini where we do trainings for our own team and for our clients – food & beverage companies. This is our creativity space where we meet and train many companies, managements, and teams. I pay a lot of attention to the trainings and developing the professional auditory in food & beverage all over the world. The education is a future of a bartending and food & beverage sector.

Why Dry Martini? How did you get the idea of managing this bar?

That is all about the latest time – the revolution in bartending of 70-80th. In 1978, I discovered the Dry Martini bar and connected with the creator, Pedro Carbonell. A few months later my friends and I opened our own place, Gimlet, with very little experience. After a bit of success with Gimlet, I approached Mr. Carbonell about taking over Dry Martini if he ever decided to stop working with this bar.

The instant I opened the imposing wooden door and pushed through the heavy green velvet curtains I was utterly captivated. I fell in love with the bar and its mise en place in which the sole and exclusive rite was the mixing of Dry Martinis. Liturgy, service, style, and ambience. I became a habitual worshipper. Pedro Carbonell, sagacious and discreet, had a little room with a bathroom in the back of the Dry Martini bar where the Speakeasy private rooms are today, and he often stayed there to think and rest. He would pace to and from the stockroom, listening to Classical music on his Walkman and noting down cryptic formulas on the walls with ideas that he alone understood. He was the first mentor with a theory and an ideology of his own whom I had the privilege of knowing. His passions were the Dry Martini, music and Barcelona 🙂.

I think the hotel management is the best way to go forward with the brand. It is the best location to expand the brand and work with it.

One night when I had had a couple of Martinis, I summoned up enough courage to ask if it would be possible to go through to the back room and talk to him. It had been quite a while since Don Pedro had stopped serving. Since he felt he was no longer agile enough, and as I knew he had no children, I asked in all sincerity and humility whether one day he decided to retire, he would think of me to continue his work. He said nothing and I left without knowing what to think.

The answer came two years later, one afternoon when I was in the Dry Martini, and this time it was he who asked to speak to me. I entered the sanctuary of his office and he said, ‘Javier, the time has come to do what you proposed some time ago. I have brought the Dry Martini this far, but you are the person who has to take it to new heights.’ He added that if I did not accept, he wanted no-one else to continue his work. He would close the bar and lease the premises to a bank. We concluded the operation in 48 hours. His generosity was extraordinary: with the bar I inherited, among other things, the artworks dedicated to the Dry Martini and the collection of antique bottles he had been accumulating over the course of a lifetime. We sealed the bill of sale with a few Dry Martinis in the office of my friend Bartolo Masoliver, the notary. That day the streets were awash with rain, but the Martinis were perfectly dry. I gave him a set of keys so that he could open his home whenever he wanted. He never used them, but he still kept coming every day to his bar (the Dry Martini) to stretch his legs, have dinner and chat.

In Dry Martini I would like to transparent the modern way but always thinking about the classic – beginning with cocktails and finishing with a dress code of the barmen and music. But the base is a famous classic cocktail Dry Martini.

Personally, I have several allusions on Dry Martini: of course, James Bond 🙂 who, as you know, is a big fan of this drink, and George Clooney, who once said “No Martini – No party!”, by the way, Hippocrates noticed that white wine mixed with artemisia flowers and star anise (almost Martini) has medicinal properties and used it to treat digestion and relieve stress…

Yes! It is a very good statement and I agree with you and Hippocrates 🙂! There is a connection with medicine, as also any spirits, wines and beer were used in a medicine and as, for example – gin as clean and with a tonic water. However, I would like to share my opinion with you – do not drink too much and if you drink, only a quality drink! When you drink too much, it is dangerous not only for your health but for the culture of drinking.

Tell us, please, about your DROPLETS. This is a unique 100% natural product. “With a few drops of DROPLETS, you can reinterpret cocktails and dishes…”, – they write about it. Just a miraculous elixir! How was the DROPLETS line developed? On what principle were the tastes selected – for specific cocktails or focusing on a hypothetical sum of tastes? How does DROPLETS work? How did you get the idea?

This collection is nonalcoholic and natural of 12 flavors and it was very important to create it like this. It could be used not only for cocktails but sauces and food. When I spoke to the audience, I would like to say that there are not only cocktails in your life, but also the natural ingredients and healthy life. So, this is my own collection of flavors. It’s been a while that in Dry Martini we were looking for a product able to create a new category offering endless new possibilities and sensations.

With a few drops of Droplets we can reinterpret cocktails and dishes always aiming innovation and creativity, mixing different shades of vegetables, spices and fruits, obtaining uniqueness and consistency in all our creations.

Its usage is limitless: cocktails, teas, gin & tonics, hot and cold sauces, vinaigrettes, dressings, juices, flavored oils, etc. They blend easily, don’t contain alcohol and are 100% natural.

You often collaborate with the world’s leading hotel chains. What advantages do you see in this from the point of view of the bar business?

I think the hotel management is the best way to go forward with the brand. It is the best location to expand the brand and work with it. I work with the famous chains all around the world and of course every time look for new locations.

You have created a series of cocktails with Freixenet. Sparkling is perhaps not the easiest drink for cocktails, what do you think? How long did it take to work on cocktails, which was the most difficult and why, and which became your favorite?

It was not so difficult to work with sparkling, there are a lot of classic cocktails based on sparkling. For me it was a new opportunity to work with a new brand and have a new cocktail in my collection. In my opinion, it is more difficult to work with beer. Now we are working with Lavazza, and it is a new opportunity to сombine espresso and cocktails. 

What are some of the main trends in the bartender world today?

I think it is more important the cocktail base. I always think about the future of the ingredients. We have a lot of classic cocktails, and we thirst of all think how to impress the clients, how to work with them…

What can you say about the most popular cocktails?

For me it is a classic. Around these forty years the classic is on the top. Negroni, Martini or some Sours. Some other cosmopolitan cocktails are also on the top because of marketing ways…

Your cocktails, without exaggeration, are works of art. When I read the list of ingredients that are included in one or another of your cocktails, I want to try it immediately  and also to ask the question: how does Javier de las Muelas work on them? Where does he get ideas for such masterpieces? And for such spectacular visual feeds – do you develop the design yourself or is there a designer working on their appearance?

I try to check out and be informed about new ingredients and references around the world, I work with my team on new ideas. We have The Academy next to Dry Martini where we work together to look for new collections and flavours.

I like creating, investigating, and re-inventing constantly. For this reason, the idea of arranging marriages of food and cocktails first came to me years ago. For me, eating is an exceptional experience, something I have learned and internalized in the course of my life.

In the last few years, my team and I have taken on the challenge of gaining a place for cocktails in the world of gastronomy and introducing them into luxury hotels all over the world. Because, if bars are perfect meeting places, then hotels are the absolute paradigm of this condition. That is what I am here for: to carry on creative settings in which people can make unforgettable films of their lives.

It always seemed to me that the world of cocktails is like a universe with countless galaxies with their countless planets and stars… The cocktail world is endless. What was the recipe for the most unusual cocktail you have ever made? Or maybe have tried with someone?

I believe in the classic cocktails but always try to taste new ingredients, we go forward with new ingredients in our Excentric cocktails collection.

A successful bar – why does one place become a favorite and you no longer want to visit another? What’s the secret? Who else except you know the answer to this question? Your bar has been nominated in the list of 50 best bars in the world for seven years in a row. Could you arrange in descending order of importance: location, range of cocktails and drinks, charisma and talent of the bartender, design and atmosphere, something else?

In my opinion, the secret is making the bar the clients’ home, to feel as at home. I always say bars are places where films are record. To my mind, the order would be the following: service, location, design and atmosphere, range of cocktails and drinks.

How much do you like and drink cocktails yourself? Or do you prefer wine? Strong alcohol? What’s your favorite alcoholic beverage?

I drink with responsibility, and I am not a fluent drinker, I love to taste what is appearing in the business.  

And what solution do you see in the future – after all, the pandemic is predicted to last until 2022? This is a big blow to HoReCa – to business, to people. Perhaps, do you have some ideas or advice for our audience – many of them are bartenders, bar and restaurant owners.

This are difficult moments for the food and beverage industry, we required estate support which has not been arriving.  We should stay positive and look for new ways to adapt and arrive to our customers.

Drinks+ editor-in-chief interviewed one of the world’s famous cocktail masters Signor Javier de las Muelas. He shared his bartending career path from his first bar Gimlet to Dry Martini The Academy, discussing perspectives, inspiration sources, and personal preferences.

Marco Sabellico, Senior Editor of Gambero Rosso, the leading platform in the Italian Wine Travel & Food sector, told about unique format, his excellent team and shared his impressions about Ukrainian wines.

What is your impressions on your first visit to Ukraine, what do you like or don’t?

First of all, I was really surprised how many people were at the event. My master classes were packed. I received a lot of questions regarding Italian wines and food. There was a very positive attitude towards me and my colleges, we were very pleased. Therefore, we are planning to come back in the future to organize more events because we understand that Ukraine can be an important partner to Italian food and wine cultural exchanges.

Everyone knows how the Gambero Rosso team works, but everyone is interested in who these shrimps are, tell us about the team, about the editorial staff which develop the Gambero Rosso as a brand.

We grew up a lot, Gambero Rosso is a long story started at 1986 from a column on a daily newspaper then become a weekly page and then become a monthly supplement. That is the moment when I joined the team – it was already a well-known monthly supplement of a daily newspaper. After one year, in 1992 we became independent – Manifesto sold Gambero Rosso to a big editorial group, after few months it was sold again and it was bought by our founder and director Stefano Bonilli. Finally, we started on our own without being a part of a group. We stayed independent until 2010, when the founder left GR and unfortunately in a few years later died. So, the new ownership is represented by our actual president Paolo Cuccia who has been managing the company for a couple of years. Now it is a publishing company, but we have a wide range of activities, such as TV, web & social media, schools, organizing the events all around the world. Then we entered in another big group Class Editori, which is a huge editorial group, an owner of a lot of magazines and newspapers and where we present one of the food and wine lifestyle sections. Recently 1,5 year ago very important Pegaso Online University entered in the ownership of Gambero Rosso. We will develop this part of the owing and be a part of this project because they are the main online university in Italy. They specialized in a modern tool of online teaching.

Could you, please, tell more about your team?

Oh, yes, my team, my pride… because it is five of us in GR office in Rome but we control 70 contributors around Italy which are the fundamental tool to make a wine guide. I am in charge of making a wine guide, and this requires a lot of work with contributors which are spread around the country, from North to South, from Piedmont to Sicily. Some of them are writers, some of them – only tasters, but all of them have a very deep knowledge on Italian wines, it’s a real pleasure to work with them. We have carefully selected them through the years and now I can say it is a very valuable team. I am the editor-in-chief of a wine guide but I also have two colleagues which are freelancers (long time contractors) and they do the wine guide with me. One is Gianni Fabrizio, he lives in Piedmont and he is a fantastic wine expert, very well known in France, Germany, Switzerland and in many other countries, a real talent of wine tasting and has an encyclopedic knowledge on Italian wine scene. The other one is Giuseppe Carrus, he joined us only in 2020, but he comes from the GR school. 15 years ago he took a course in food and wine journalism organized by GR for one year after the university. He was the brilliant student and worked a lot as a freelancer and little by little we gave him more responsibilities on the organization of the wine guide and now he is experienced enough to be an Editor-in-chief like me and my colleague Gianni. So these are three of us at the top of the organization.

Please, could you be so kind to clarify how the work with the online project is now going on, what international programs you have implemented, how to participate and how much it costs?

My colleague Lorenzo Ruggeri is in charge of the international projects. He is also the editor of the Top Italian restaurants guide which is available for free on gamberorossointernational.com, in the restaurant section. In this period we have been working a lot on the net and therefore on the new international website which now hosts at least 4/5 news items a day. We also have a digital magazine that comes out every two months, also this for free, which is called Wine Travel Food, while in recent weeks we have launched a free newsletter called Gambero Rosso Weekly, sent out every Friday. It deals with topics concerning food and wine with a strong focus on Italy. All this is in anticipation of being able to start again with international events all around the world as early as June.

How does the selection take place, the first and the second. Is there an advertising campaign and you yourself apply, tell us the internal mechanism. How are the judges selected, who are they?

The wine world knows about the GR event and we cooperate with the producers’ associations (consortiums) and they collect the samples. So, they know that we have a big event in April at VinItaly where all Italian wine world participates, where we also could meet new wineries. From the local Chamber of commerce, we collect all the samples and after VinItaly at the end of April, we start the tasting. Some of the areas send samples to Roma and we start the wine tastings with wine professionals: journalists, wine collectors, wine writers etc., even bankers and doctors with the passion about wine. And everyone who developed enough experience in wine tasting through the years can join us and taste in our team. We have tasters from all over the world. I select the tasters and we are interested to have a lot of them: the more we have, the more objective our work is.

How can one get into your pool of tasters? This is a hint 🙂

We invite every year one or two colleagues which we have met in our events during the year to join us for tastings…

How does the tasting in technical aspects looks like?

Wines, which got the highest score in the regional tasting sessions, go to Rome. In the final tasting, we decide (the Editors-in-chief) who will get the Bicchieri. Actually we have 4 scales for the guide: 3 Bicchieri, 2 Bicchieri, red marked – these are wines which were invited to Rome but didn’t get 3 Bicchieri, and other 2 Bicchieri marked in black which were not tasted in Rome, and one glass. Besides these tastings, we have a number of special awards.

How do you work under these conditions now? Only offline or do you usually organize meetings? How did you make the decision? Do you travel to the regions or gather around the table?

In this situation we all work online, I receive a lot of samples from the wineries, my colleagues do the same. We have a lot of video tastings and a lot of viewers. One of the video project was a TV program: 7 chefs were cooking the receipts with the same ingredients and I was the one to pair wines in the end. We did everything from home with families, made videos and connected with each other by phone. Now we are focused on a project called “Stappa con Gambero Rosso” which is a seriest of short videos (6-7 minutes) shot in Città del Gusto Roma where I present a winery and taste a wine. And all these tastings are then put online on the social media.

What was the hardest?

Yes, it was, because I use to travel everywhere and being for such a long time home was hard. But lockdown is the only way to resist the problem and of course the vaccination. But we were lucky enough last year. We could travel a lot in June, July and August through the regions and we had small commissions, mostly three tasters, to respect the rules of social distancing. Hope everything will change soon. Big news: I had my first dose of vaccine, so from May 3^rd I’ll be on the way for the new tastings… The 2022 edition of the Guide is about to take off… It will be our 35^th edition…

In incomplete 2020, a team of 70 experts working for Gambero Rosso has tasted more than 46 thousand wines. This is an impressive number. How many wines do you taste per day?

Usually, when we work for the Guide we taste 100 wines per day. My favorite time starts at 9.30 until 14.00-15.00. I never make big pauses, it is more complicated to start again the tasting J. But it depends on timetable, the area, the zone… It is not a rule but we try to taste at list 70-80 wines per day, otherwise we cannot make it. And I never drink coffee during the tasting. I try not to eat even any biscuits or bread, and drink water as minimum as possible.

Tell us about the tensest (hard) and funniest episode in this selection process.

I can tell you about the special things how we work together with my colleagues. After the tasting we collect all the texts and in August work together in the office. We correct and check the Italian language, grammar, insert everything into the database. That is a time when everybody is out of town…  We work in a big hall, 5-6 people together. I take my hi-fi equipment, we make cocktails, we cook, organize dinners together, but we work for 8-10 hours a day. We live somehow like a family, nevertheless we work very hard! We do three times proofreadings and at the end I need to read every single page of more than 1200 pages in total. What can I say, 4 eyes are better than 2 and 6 are better than 4, so that is why I have my 2 very experienced colleagues.

I am a very paper person, and I prefer to work with paper, and proofreading is in paper. They criticize me, but I am old-school 🙂 I need to see a printed page in front of me.

I know what you mean! 🙂 But it’s also a pleasure – I’m not talking about proofs – to hold a print edition in your hands! High-quality paper, fonts, shades, design details – digital is more ascetic. And the print suits to the wine 🙂 We see how GR is supported and trusted by so many producers. But at the beginning of the journey, you were very small.

Little by little we became big, and it was a winning decision to organize events outside of Italy and since the beginning the guide was translated into English and German, and that was very important. Then we have Chinese and Japanese markets which are growing and we make a translation also into these languages.

How did your publishing house get the support from such a huge number of producers, consortiums? Certainly not comparable to our producers and our magazine. Our markets are radically different.

People need to know what winemakers produce, what they do and they need partners to explain people what’s new, what’s good, what’s going on. The more you do, the better you do, the more people trust you. Little by little we build the trust, it took us 35 years with a Guide.

You have a GR international Events office. What are your plans in this direction?

We have Tiina Eriksson in charge of the international projects. Develop the international is our main issue and I hope we will increase as soon as it is possible. The Italian producers are asking us to organize such events and we need to do it. And as soon as possible we are back on the track.

You have tasted a wide range of Ukrainian wines. What are your impressions?

My impression is that you have a very interesting terroir, Odessa area. I saw young producers aware of what it takes to make wines of good quality, entrepreneurs that want to invest in this business. They all seemed very professional. What they lack is experience, maybe, but little by little this experience will come. But this start is rather interesting, and I am very positive. I think Ukraine should develop the wine industry. You have what it takes. A suggestion? Don’t follow too much the international style. Try to develop also local styles based on local varieties more than Cabernet, Merlot etc. You have them. You can do it.

Photo: wineandspirits.com.ua

Marco Sabellico, Senior Editor of Gambero Rosso, the leading platform in the Italian Wine Travel & Food sector, told about unique format, his excellent team and shared his impressions about Ukrainian wines.

As a wine producer for almost 40 years, I had the opportunity to be a part of the modern Greek wine history, that is closely related to the presence of the Greek Wine Federation. I felt I had a duty to offer to my colleagues and to the Greek wine, a small token of appreciation of the many things I learned from them throughout all these years. My priorities included creating and developing regional councils for the protection of PDOs, modernizing the Greek legislation governing the wine industry,  and ensuring growth of the national vineyards; however, unexpectedly, it was enforcement of the excise duty on wine and a fight against it on both political and legal grounds, has become the priority of my presidency.

Please tell our readers, how nomination of candidates for such a position took place. What is the voting process, how many applicants? Who are judges?

The election of candidates to hold the positions as members of the administrative council takes place every two years at the general assembly meeting . The council consists of 11 members. The 5 of them represent the 5 districts of Greece: North Greece, Central Greece, Peloponnese, Crete, and Aegean islands. The members of each district are to cast their votes for or against these 5 candidates. As to the remaining 6 candidates, all members of the Federation are entitled to cast their votes for or against them. The administrative council consists of the candidates who got [the required number of votes] and their positions in the council are decided by the voting during the first meeting after the general assembly meeting.

The 120 wineries, which are members of the Federation, are the companies with a long history. The last decade we are very happy to witness more and more new wineries starting their business.

How much time do you spend, performing your presidential duties? How do you manage to combine this work with your global project Domaine Skouras?

Being the President of the Greek Wine Federation is a challenging assignment that needs time, concentration, energy, patience, knowledge, passion, and ambition. The same things are required when I am working in the winery. Coping with both duties would be impossible without the support I get from my colleagues in the winery and the Federation. Thankfully, the Federation has Prof. Theodore Georgopoulos as General Director, who is an international expert in the wine law, with a deep knowledge of the area, which he has gained while collaborating with the Federation for many years. The administrative staff and experts working for the Federation are also of great help in achieving our goals.

Domaine Skouras

What are the main responsibilities of the President of the Greek Wine Federation and the main functions of the Federation?

The Greek Wine Federation represents all private Greek wineries, promotes the Greek wine globally, and elaborates laws governing the wine industry. The President and the administrative council have been working in the interests of the Greek winemakers and for the purpose of ensuring a high quality of the Greek wine. At the same time, I am working with an amazing Board, composed by 10 colleagues who have gained a vast experience, have fresh ideas and are sharing our common dream for the Greek Wine’s future. A real dream team! I have been enjoying tremendously working with them for 6 years.

The Federation has about 120 members. What is the process of accepting new members, how long does it take and what are the terms of membership?

The 120 wineries, which are members of the Federation, are the companies with a long history. The last decade we are very happy to witness more and more new wineries starting their business.

A winery that intends to become a new member has to file an application with the secretary of the Federation. This application needs to be also signed by two current members of the Federation. The Board has to approve the application, whereas it is up to the General Assembly to approve membership during its annual meeting. In terms of criteria, the most fundamental one is an absolute  respect to the wine laws and promotion of the values of the Federation.

What does the membership in the Federation grant? Please list the main benefits. Perhaps you keep in touch with some international organizations?

The Greek Wine Federation is the official organization for private Greek wine industry. It is a member of the CEEV (“Comité Vins”), the largest European organization defending the wine industry’s interests. Being a member of the Greek Wine Federation means that you get continuous updates about everything that is going on in the wine industry and get support if you face a problem. As concerns the issue: how important the Federation is, it may be proved by the fact that it managed to offer real legal help to its members when the excise duty was suddenly imposed on wine and to resolve serious problems that our members were facing.

Studying the information about you, we came across the fact that, as it turned out, you did not plan a winemaker’s career, but wanted to become a doctor. However, when time came to enter the medical university, doubts began to plague you and as a result you missed the deadline for passing the exams… Moreover, having changed your mind about the future, you entered the Faculty of Oenology in Dijon, Burgundy. What made you change your profession so dramatically? Who opened the world of wine for you?

Actually, after I had arrived to France for my Chemistry studies, my teacher of French introduced me into the French culture and he started with vines, wines, and Chateaus. This enchanted me. I fell in love with wine and I thought that Greek wine would have very good prospects. It was not a common secret that Greece was very much related to the wine production, though for many years this relationship was neglected. The idea of making quality Greek wine stroke me as a lightening and the next day I went to the university and changed my major to Oenology studies.

After six years of education, you created your first wine project after taking a bank loan. If it’s not a secret, how much money did the Skouras winery have at the very start and how quickly did the project pay off? Tell us about your first winemaking experience. What prompted you to take such a risky financial step?

Before establishing my own winery, I had gained experience in other wineries and that resulted in my understanding, what were the correct steps that had to be taken to start my business. Taking a bank loan was a risk, of course, but this is what a businessman has to deal with on a daily basis.

The idea of making quality Greek wine stroke me as a lightening and the next day I went to the university and changed my major to Oenology studies.

After you had returned to Greece and started a small production, how did your business go? What difficulties did you face, and who supported you?

All new businesses usually face difficulties at the very start. My greatest difficulty was to balance my wine mentality with Greek market’s needs. Not only did I have to be a good oenologist, but a good salesman, too. Throughout all these years, my wife and I have been working together in order to be achievers in this field.

Who tasted your first wine and what were the professional reviews?

I can recall many reviews about my first wine but the most important was the one dated back to 1993.  This happened when the first wine competition ever took place (it was called “Wine America”): my first wine Megas Oenos was considered to be the best in its category, having won a gold medal. The panel of judges was chaired by Mrs. Mary Mulligan (MW) and the reviews were very flattering. This was my very first medal.

Today, you are called a pioneer of the modern era in the Greek winemaking. You were one of the first who introduced the innovative technologies and practices in winemaking. When the Drinks+ team visited Domaine Skouras in Argolis, near ancient Argos, we were impressed by the technical capabilities and innovative technologies to create terroir wines of the highest quality. Tell us, please, how you choose the equipment: who gets the information about new products, who supplies it? What funds are invested into the production as a percentage of profit?

Every year, we spend about 20% of our profits in order to improve the facilities and machinery that will fulfill our needs and help to maintain our standards. Depending on our needs, we have been collaborating with the companies providing us with the best machinery. We are trying to get updates about all technological evolutions in the field of winemaking and we love dreaming and experimenting with wine.

How often do you replace the equipment and where do you acquire technical innovations? What are the most recent acquisitions that you are particularly proud of?

Replacement of the equipment depends on the winery’s needs. Usually, our technical innovations come from France or Italy. Recently, we have added a new machine that helps us avoid oxidation while we press the grapes by using nitrogen.

Domaine Skouras winery is one of the leaders among Greek wine companies, especially, as we presume, in the field of advanced technologies applied in winemaking. For example, your Peplo Rose – tell us about ​​this blend: whose idea was that to create this wine? Are there any new ideas regarding other blends?

In our winery, we are proud to collaborate with a team of talented oenologists and viticulturalists and we have an R&D department conducting researches related to such new ideas. These past 40 years, after numerous experimental vinifications, we have gained a vast experience with our grape varieties.  At the same time, collaborating with young scientists gives as an excellent combination of experience and enthusiasm.

Peplo was a result of continuous research and vinifications. In order to create a modern rosé, it was important for us to emphasize its freshness and acidity. In order to achieve this, initially, the vines had to be the vines gathered at a high altitude (over 650m). Then, we had to choose a grape variety. Through the experimenting vinifications, we decided that Agiorghitiko needed to be fermented inside barrels made of acacia and sur lie, so that it would get the appropriate structure and texture and at the same time not to have too much oak. Mavrofilero is a very aromatic grape which we skin-fermented to get the most out of it and also improve its structure inside amphoras. Last, but not least – we chose Syrah to balance the blend with its lovely fruits and flowers which was fermented in stainless steel vats to preserve its delicate aromas and freshness.

We never stop experimenting with new ideas and inspiration in this winery. At the time being we are more concentrated on wines with mono-varietals.

In addition to the technical equipment at the highest level, it is necessary to draw attention to your laboratory, which, in addition to studying and monitoring, has been conducting active experiments described in the protocols in cooperation with the Liquor Control Board of Ontario (LCBO). Tell our readers about the latest research. What kind of experiments are being carried out?

Above all, we are very passionate scientists who try to control every single parameter we can think of, to guarantee the consumers’ health. We work with ETS in California, where we make all the analysis needed. It should be also pointed out that during these past few years, we have made investment into the allergen analysis to guarantee the safety of consumption.

Our readers are a professional wine audience, which also includes the Ukrainian winemakers who are newcomers to the industry. Could you give some recommendations to them, perhaps, share information about the most interesting ideas in the field of technologies, and the world’s most fashionable wine techniques available nowadays?

There are no recipes for success. For us, a modern winemaker has to be up to date with every new technique in the field. Respect the tradition and work hard in the vine yards and with the wines! The world’s best winery or wine cannot do anything without people behind them.

Today, you are teaching winemaking to the second generation of the family business – your two children. How do they help you at the winery? How do you share the responsibilities?

The second generation is on business and are already fulfilling numerous responsibilities. My daughter who studied economics and marketing is the manager of the marketing team and my son who has studied Wine and Agriculture takes care of winemaking and bottling. All of us do our best to keep our quality standards and we always try to become better.

Where do your children study and where would you advise, as a matter of principle, to study winemaking? In Greece, in France – at the universities or in the real-world terms?

My daughter has studied economics in Greece and did a Master’s [degree] in Marketing in Scotland. My son, who is a winemaker studied in France, but he has already worked and gained experience in different winemaking regions of the USA and Europe. Working hard, loving your job and being open to learning are the guidelines to become better.

Tell us about your team – who are these people: what education have they gained, how old are they, what is their work experience, interests?

My winemaking and agriculture team consists of 6 people who take care of the wines and the vines. All of them studied oenology or agriculture in Greece, Italy or France. They are the people who from 28 to 50 years old, that either started their work experience in this winery or have travelled and gained experience worldwide. We are a winery that loves education so all year around, my team and I take part in seminars or webinars that can make us better. The passion for good wine holds us strongly together.

How is your working day going? How often do you conduct working tastings, with whom do you consult?

My working day begins early in the morning. Every task is a pleasant challenge. Solving problems, making wine, and working on marketing. On a daily basis, I have to cooperate with all winery’s managers in order to achieve the best results and have wine tastings with the oenology team to ensure a high-quality production and make future plans for the wines.

In the interview to our Drinks+ magazine, Jancis Robinson noted that she is a huge fan of Greece: “The country produces highly distinctive wines from a rich array of indigenous grape varieties that we are still discovering”. And the Ukrainian sommelier, who is now the Head Sommelier at the London restaurant Hide, in his commentary on the trip along the Nemea wine road said: “I tasted Mavrofilero and Grande Cuvee Nemea wines – and these are the best that I have tasted during this trip”. What is going on now in the Greek winemaking? What, in your opinion, has changed over the past 5 years?

Greek winemakers are focusing more and more on the indigenous varieties that are found in each region. I am proud to say that in Greece, the knowledge of vineyard management and of the winemaking is a combination implying an excellent job done. Practicing modern techniques, but at the same time respecting our tradition has led to the creation of unique wines that cannot be found or replicated anywhere else in the world. This is the biggest advantage we have so far. We have a better understanding of the macro and micro climates of each region and we are aiming at producing high quality fruit, which, at the end, will become a high – quality wine. I would also like to mention that the international varieties cultivated in our country, are not only complimentary, but they are showing the dynamics characteristic of our land: to create the memorable wines. A very good example of that is our Viognier Eclectique, which has gained many prizes from international competitions and can be now found in many prestigious places across the globe. Nothing of the above, of course, would have happened without investing heavily into marketing and promotion of Wines of Greece, in general, and our brand, in particular.

What is currently being done to popularize the Greek wines? Don’t you think that nowadays, the promotion is lagging behind the high- quality level wines? Quite recently, it seems to us, the situation was exactly opposite.

Promoting Greek wines in the exports market is a very difficult task. Nonetheless, in recent years and especially during the economic crisis, the winemaking sector in Greece has shown great resilience and has gained the respect of the wine trade globally. While other sectors of the Greek economy recessed, we continued investing into marketing and supporting our clients. There is no denying that because of the COVID-19 the priorities have changed. But, during the last 10 years the higher-valued wines have not dropped in sales, on the contrary, they are selling more. That means, that all the work we are doing has positive results and it is still growing. The perfect example of that is Qatar Airways, one of the most expensive and well-known Airway Companies, who selected last year our Nemea Grande Cuvee among many wines, from different countries, to offer it to their first-class customers.

The world’s best winery or wine cannot do anything without people behind them.

At the same time, according to our observations, the prices for Greek wines have been reduced, despite their quality enhancement. Is it a real fact?

We believe that we have become more competitive on the global wine stage, but we are always having in mind the uniqueness of our products. We know that we cannot compete with traditionally strong countries like France, Spain and Italy, but we are gaining more and more attention. In general, we believe that we have a better understanding of the global wine trade and we act accordingly, proving that boutique wines may be equally charming.

You are actively working with autochthons: you have planted small experimental vineyards with Greek varieties that are on the verge of extinction. Tell us more about these varieties. Are there any programs to promote these wines in the world markets?

Authochthon varieties are a part of our country’s wealth and history. My team and I are working the last 13 years with Mavrostyfo variety. The results are impressive and the abilities that this variety offers to us are numerous. Thankfully, there are many programs promoting Greek wines and its particularities.

Are climate changes perceptible for wine styles? Which variety, in your opinion, is the most susceptible to modifications, changes? Which of the Greek autochthonous varieties is gaining special attention in the world market? Which one is underestimated, in your opinion?

Climatic changes are real, but we haven’t felt their strong impact yet. Saying that, we are actively looking to find ways to slow down that effect, such as increasing the plantings at higher altitudes, searching for clones that are more resilient in dry and hot conditions and changing the canopy management. Agiorghitiko is definitely a variety that offers many possibilities. It can give amazing results in different circumstances and therefore, for us, it is a great tool. On the other hand, Moscofilero, like every aromatic variety, does not like big changes and is more difficult to adapt. Assyrtiko has gained most of the attention in the world market and it deserves it. It is an amazing variety, which has become very famous among the wine lovers and professionals, due to its high quality and uniqueness, especially when it comes from the island of Santorini. Nowadays, you can find amazing wines from the mainland, too. For many years we were feeling that Agiorghitiko had not gained the fame and the attention it deserves. But we are happy to report that this is changing now. The demand for this variety is higher than ever and continues to grow. It is such a dynamic variety, that can be used to produce various wines: from amazing every-day drinking wines, up to age-worthy and memorable bottles.

Domaine Skouras produces 700,000 bottles of wine per year. About 40% of them are exported to the world market. What are the main importing countries? Will the distribution change due to the pandemic?

Actually, our annual production is now around 850,000 bottles and it is almost 50% that is exported in more than 20 countries. USA, Belgium and Germany are traditionally the biggest markets for us. The distribution has expanded during the pandemic, as many opportunities arose in the countries to which we haven’t exported before. Also, as the purchase of wines has also changed (restaurants closed) we focused more on retail and the impact of COVID-19 was much less for us. We believe that this trend will continue to grow after the pandemic because people have noticed that it is an easy, convenient and undoubtedly quick [way of purchasing].

Are you considering steps to promote your wines in the Eastern European markets?

The Eastern European market is a market that we have been looking at for many years now. In the last couple of years, we have started collaboration projects in Ukraine, Romania and Estonia. We have found opportunities in other countries such as Lithuania, Bulgaria, Poland and Latvia and, of course, Russia, which is always on our radar. We believe that more opportunities will arise in the next few years, as the interest is growing and more activities are taking place such as wine fairs. It should be also emphasized that the Greek authorities based in these countries are doing a great job promoting the Greek products.

George Skouras, the owner and founder of Domaine Skouras, one of the true pioneers of the modern Greek wine renaissance, President of the Greek Wine Federation in an interview with Drinks+ talked about the principles of the federation and the development of Greek winemaking during the pandemic.

A little more than a year has passed since Maksym Voloshyn became the head of one of the largest wineries in Ukraine. The Drinks+ columnist asked the CEO of Cotnar what changes had taken place in the company during this period and what to expect from the renowned Transcarpathian winery in the near future.

Drinks+: Maksym, you have a new young team and I am sure you don’t just have a plan, but a long list of ambitious plans. What had to be changed in the first place?

Maksym Voloshyn: The main goal is to recover Cotnar’s glory. Once it was the number one company in Ukraine in terms of sales, and a large-scale production was built for such sales. What makes me happy today is that the [production] line load is already much higher than a year ago, when I joined the company. I remember very well my first visit to the winery: I fell in love with Cotnar literally at first sight. And I was amazed at [its] potential. Virtually immediately, a strategy emerged in my head: where to move and what to strive for.

First of all, all attention and efforts were concentrated around production and launch of processes. I also needed a practically new team to implement all plans and ideas, and I particularly relied on the managers for working with partners and distributors, since some relationships required urgent rehabilitation. An important goal was to return, as much as possible, to retail so that Cotnar products could be found in any chain store. And now, we have the first results of our team’s work. Today, there is not a single region in Ukraine where Cotnar is not represented. During the year, we have expanded our product line and closed almost all possible segments, including the low-price category.

D +: What are your long-term and medium-term goals?

Maksym Voloshyn: We are actively working in the export vector: the first contracts have been signed already, and soon our products will be available for purchasing outside of Ukraine. Now, we are actively negotiating with European countries: Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Germany, and Holland. The first contracts have already been signed.

D+: Maksym, what changes in production are we talking about?

Maksym Voloshyn: Frankly, the market was lacking a good, light, pleasant wine for reasonable money. Taking that into account, we launched a new budget line of wines. And we were spot-on: the wines are in great demand and are well sold in Ukraine. Another of a series of significant changes, which had to be implemented was a change in the design of labels, and we focused on TM Cotnar. Today, new designs for Monte Cote, Cotnar Hills [labels] have been already elaborated, and we are in the process of redesigning the [label for] beloved Cotnar Gorobchiki. We are also launching a new line of Cotnar Grand Reserve within a few months and preparing new labels.

D+: Are there any plans for new blends and single-varietal wines?

Maksym Voloshyn: We are planning to add new varieties, such as Zweigelt and Müller Thurgau. If they pass certification in Ukraine, we will most likely add them to our lines by the beginning of the next year. We will also expand plantings of the existing vineyards in order to increase the production of high-quality aged wines.

D+: Maksym, considering that you are launching high-level wines aged in oak: are there any plans for, or maybe there have already been, changes in the team of Cotnar’s winemakers?

Maksym Voloshyn: No, we have an excellent team of winemakers. The only personnel change was that a high-class specialist in microbiology has joined us. We are the “Old School Believers” in this regard: I believe that the most highly qualified technologists in Ukraine are the specialists representing the “old school”. Naturally, such specialists are elderly people, so we are especially sensitive and appreciate our technologist Marina Stankovskaya. She is a guru, a master of her craft. And, of course, we appreciate our winemaker Geyzo Veresh, who has an absolute sense of smell and possesses  a “gorgeous nose”: I don’t know, who is capable of competing with him. So our team is in full strength and on alert. I am sure that winemaking can become the most beautiful and prominent Ukraine’s trademark in the world stage. And we are already working on it!

The Drinks+ columnist asked the CEO of Cotnar Maksym Voloshyn what changes had taken place in the company during this period and what to expect from the renowned Transcarpathian winery in the near future.

This conversation between two winemakers, who are renowned in Ukraine and abroad, was contemplated a long time ago, when I watched, how passionate these people were when they told each other about their life’s business: winemaking. And the idea was implemented after Dr. Ricardo Nunez, Head of Vinos de La Luz, had visited the Odessa winery Kolonist.

We arrived to these lands on the unique ancient holiday: the Day of Trifon Zarezan – which is brightly celebrated on the fourteenth day of February in the Danube Bessarabia.

I was lucky to see with my own eyes, for the first time in my life, the preparations for this holiday, the sincere atmosphere and hospitality of the local residents, who eagerly shared their tradition with the guests.

The owners of Kolonist – Alla and Ivan Plachkov – not only organized a friendly reception of their guests but, a warm, family-like, and sincere meeting. Having learned numerous interesting historical facts that Ivan Vasilyevich generously shared, having heard interesting stories about this region from Alla, I firmly decided to continue our acquaintance and present a part of our conversations in the format of an interview, on the pages of our media partner, Drinks+ magazine.

Comments by Dr. Ricardo Nunez:

When Natalia Burlachenko had told me about the idea to record an interview with the owners of Kolonist for Drinks+, I recalled our first meeting with Ivan Vasilyevich Plachkov. I met him at the 2nd Wine & Spirits Ukraine exhibition in 2019, where Kolonist had its own stand, just like Vinos de La Luz. There, we met with Ivan for the first time.

We agreed to meet again in Izmail. During that visit, I was able to get to know Alla and Ivan better, could get understanding of their vineyards and the production of both wines and other products from grapes.

Due to this trip, the idea of an interview had been contemplated and thereupon, the interview was conducted by Natalia, a columnist for Drinks+ magazine and Brand Ambassador of Vinos de La Luz. I didn’t want to miss the opportunity to see Alla and Ivan again, so I asked Natalia to allow me to accompany her on her journalistic mission.

Finally, I must admit that I had a “personal problem” with Ivan: our passion for what we are doing made us constantly talk about wine. And each of us wanted to tell more and faster than the other. And so, due to the interview, I solved this problem: I could finally silently and carefully listen to Ivan. Earlier, I began to respect him for his wine and passion. Now, I also respect him for his deep knowledge of history, politics, philosophy, religion and … even for the grape seed oil that the Plachkov produce.

I would like to extend my gratitude to Natalia Burlachenko for the opportunity to do this. I am going to read this material in Drinks+ magazine, sipping red wine from two glasses alternately: one will be filled with La Luz and another one with Kolonist. Triple pleasure!

Natalia Burlachenko: Let’s start with what is probably already known to many of our readers, but kindly remind me: what brought you into winemaking, when you decided to create your own wine?

Ivan Plachkov: In the late 90s – early 2000s, the Danube Bessarabia was one of the most depressed regions of Ukraine: the economy did not work, the social sphere was not funded, and the people living here did not see any prospects for their future. The idea of ​​implementing the Kolonist project was, first of all, aimed at showing the potential of our region as a wine-producing region (wine was produced here yet at the times of the Ancient Greece), opening up the capabilities of people, the region and the country in general. Moreover, the Bulgarians (and I am an ethnic Bulgarian) have the love of the vine engraved in their genetic memory.

Natalia Burlachenko: Please define the stages of development of Kolonist in chronological order: from the beginning of operations after the enterprise’s foundation, to the present day.

Ivan Plachkov: In 2020, we were celebrating 15 years of Kolonist’s operations.  If we conditionally divide the history of Kolonist into 5 stages, then the first one was comprehension of the idea, creation of the team, planting of the first three hectares of vineyards and production of the first 2500 bottles. The second stage: completion of the construction of a winery in compliance with the modern European technologies, planting another 10 hectares of vineyards and purchase of the up-to-date European equipment for production of the volume up to 100 thousand bottles. The third stage: beginning of collaboration with the renowned French oenologist and consultant Olivier Doga and his wife Kathy Sokazo, and entering the European market with wines of “High Gamma” category.

The fourth stage: beginning of the production of sparkling wines using the classic method of champagnization, as well as release of grape seed oil and balsamic vinegar. We have just begun to implement the fifth stage: it consists in planting another 50 hectares of vineyards to fully provide our production line with our own grapes. Today, we buy up to 30-40 per cent of the grapes from our partners: the adjacent wineries.

Natalia Burlachenko: Kolonist is a company that strives to gain from grapes everything that this amazing berry can give. Tell us about the principles of production, about working with grapes.

Ivan Plachkov: We are confident that a good wine begins yet in the vineyards. We plant only Ukrainian seedlings. The terroir and the location of our plots on the slopes of the largest freshwater lake in Ukraine Yalpug allow us to minimize the treatment of vines with reagents against diseases. The grapes are hand-harvested, and it takes no more than an hour from harvesting to entering the production facilities. Subsequent processing and fermentation of grapes are carried out, using the most up-to-date Italian, German, and French equipment. Wine bottling is done via sterile cold bottling line. Wines are aged in French barriques made of the 150-year-old French and American oak, using both traditional toasting method, and modern ceramic and hydroceramic toasting methods.

But the main component of our success is personnel possessing the highest level of organization, responsibility and professionalism.

Natalia Burlachenko: You say that now the time has come for the wines of the “New Old World”. What exactly do you mean by this concept?

Ivan Plachkov: Until recently, wine experts have divided the world’s wine regions into three main parts: the Old World (Europe), the New World (USA, Chile, Argentina, Australia, etc.) and the New “New World” (China and Vietnam). However, nowadays, the regions, where wines have been produced since the times of the Ancient Greece, Rome, and Byzantium, are attracting much attention. Unfortunately, during the period of Ottoman domination, the culture of winemaking was lost. And during the Soviet era, the wines, which were the products of the then industry, were produced. And it is only now, when the potential of the incredible terroirs of the countries of the Black Sea region is being discovered. This region is called the New “Old World”.

Natalia Burlachenko: For what reason, Ukraine, which had such deep traditions, virtually disappeared from the world’s wine-producing map at a certain point in time? What grape variety can bring Ukraine to the forefront of the world’s winemaking?

Ivan Plachkov: As I said, the continuous Ottoman domination, during which all local autochthonous varieties, except for one – Telti Kuruk – were lost, and the Soviet-era period, when a huge amount of “industrial” wines were produced, are the main reasons behind the loss of the culture of viticulture and winemaking.

As concerns the potential Ukrainian grape varieties, first of all, I would distinguish “Odessa Black” and “Sukholimansky White”, which were bred by the Ukrainian vine selection breeders in the 60s. On the basis of these varieties, Kolonist creates the brand of “Ukrainian wine”. Wines from these varieties have already been highly appreciated by the world’s leading wine experts. And we believe that these varieties will help Ukraine enter the family of the world’s wine-making countries.

Natalia Burlachenko: 2021 will be a historic year for the entire generation: Ukrainians will finally be able to own land and vineyards. How, do you think, will this fact affect the wine industry’s development?

Ivan Plachkov: This will certainly give a huge impetus to the development of viticulture and winemaking. First of all, due to the planting, on a long-term basis, of the vineyards with very high-quality planting material. [It will also imply] transition to the processing of vineyards, using the most up-to-date equipment and the most advanced technologies.

Natalia Burlachenko: Do you believe in the so-called Denominations of Origin? If so, do you think that Ukraine should have its own appellations? Which ones would you distinguish at the national level and how many appellations can Ukraine have? What, in your opinion, variety or varieties is, or are capable of becoming the base one(s) for appellations?

Ivan Plachkov: Yes, I do believe! As of today, seven main regions have already been identified in Ukraine for wine production. And the creation of controlled names of origin should be initiated by the producers themselves, as soon as they realize that it will bring them economic benefits. And in no case should this be done in the form of orders. However, there is no doubt that within a fairly short period of time, Ukraine will develop and implement a classification of wines following the example of the European PGIs (“Protected Geographical Indication”) and PDOs (“Protected Designation of Origin”). As for a number of levels in the classification, well, I presume that only three would be enough or a start – “Wine of Ukraine”/PGI/PDO). Nevertheless, the question regarding permitted varieties remains open: additional research needs to be conducted.

Natalia Burlachenko: The small French town of Beaujolais once invented the festival of young wine, which is now celebrated around the world every year on the third Wednesday of November under the slogan “Beaujolais Nouveau estarrive”. Argentina has declared April 27-th as Malbec Day and is hosting government-sponsored events through its distributors and embassies in various countries. Don’t you think that Ukraine deserves to have its own flagship grapes? Which day and variety would you choose to call it the “Day of …”?

Ivan Plachkov: We are confident that the flagship grape variety in the Ukrainian winemaking is Odessa Black, and it deserves celebrating the “Odessa Black Day” in our country. We are grateful to you, Ricardo, for sharing with us the idea of establishing a holiday dedicated to the Ukrainian variety. We decided to establish this holiday on May 5-th, which would be the “Odessa Black Variety Day”, and from May 1-st to May 10-th, we would organize celebrations in honor of that variety.

Ricardo Nunez: You asked me the question, which I would like to answer right now: “Why did Vinos de La Luz decide to conduct this interview with the head of Kolonist?” The answer is pretty simple: because we respect you personally and see in you and the team of Kolonist the avant-garde part of winemakers, we see the future of Ukrainian wine in you!

Text: Natalia Burlachenko, Brand Ambassador of Vinos de La Luz, sommelier.

The conversation between two winemakers, famous in Ukraine and abroad, took place after Dr. Ricardo Nunez, Head of Vinos de La Luz, had visited the Odessa winery Kolonist.

Editor-in-chief of Drinks+ managed to interview Director General of the International Organisation of Vine and Wine (OIV) Pau Roca.

Mr. Pau Roca, first of all, we would like to note, that this is a great honor for us to have the opportunity to ask you questions and tell our readers (not only Ukrainian but also foreign) about your vision of the wine world today, your personal thoughts and forecasts.

In your interviews you pay much attention to topics regarding the sustainability and that the strategies developed to adapt to the “environmental, economic and social impacts of climate change” will dictate the future wellbeing of the sector. What, in your opinion, is the best course for the future of winemaking, given such an unstable situation in the global economy. Mark please 5-10 directions.

If we recall the creation of the OIV in 1924, it was a response to a crisis. Today, we are facing a different crisis in which the OIV is in a central position to respond and provide solutions, to develop the economy of vineyards and farmers as well as promoting the wine trade. The current situation is an interesting turning point to start with since every crisis is part of an evolution, and we have to look at how other systems evolve. Climate change will be in no doubt an even biggest challenge. From now on the absolute value must be maintaining this planet with life. In biological terms, this can be done by paying attention to the functioning of mature ecosystems, where energy waste is minimised in spite of their complexity. This fundamental idea questions the way in which economy will recreate its models. In order to forecast future models, we need to look at other ones and how major ecosystems, being so complex and diverse, are energy efficient. In this process, digitalisation has shown its vital importance.

And it is only by working collectively that efforts can have optimal results in the future. Sharing knowledge, investing in research and innovation are fundamental in this evolutionary process. In this process, digital changes are here to stay, we just mustn’t forget to maintain the right balance between technology and human contact.

In this regard, the OIV Member States are unanimous on the importance of digital development and adaptation, particularly in the current context. Therefore, an ambitious digitalisation project is under way, inserted in the OIV´s strategies to overcome the current challenges. Among the objectives of the project, now in progress, are for example, the creation of a global observatory on digital transformation in the vitivinicultural sector and the development of a new system for the collection and development of data on the sector.

The OIV’s digitalisation plan aims to benefit all the players of the vitivinicultural sector. It is fundamental to share ideas and objectives in order to keep pace with the digitalisation process that is currently affecting not only our field, but all sectors of the economy, including the international public sector.

Wine-producers need innovation to respond to climate change, so your strategies are being developed or tightened. And, if possible in numbers, how the OIV’s policies have influenced the environmental aspects of winemaking.

The OIV is particularly attentive to the concerns raised by the United Nations agencies. Sustainable Development Goals (SDG) are one of the current considerations handled within the OIV Strategic Plan 2020-2024 that integrates 13 of the 17 SDGs into its work. Although the world vineyard represents 7.4 million hectares out of 1.5 billion hectares of arable land -that is only 0.5%- the farmers income per surface unit compared to other arable crops follows a very interesting evolution due to the value chain and price formation in a very fragmented economic structure. This benefits millions of grape-growers. Origin, territorial identification and strict quality rules provide for empowerment of farmers in the value chain.

This model can be applicable to many crops. Thereby developing farming population in areas where vineyards are one of the most adaptable crops even in drought conditions and preventing desertification.

I would like to stress that Sustainable development is a priority for the Organisation’s Member States, which, through the new Resolution OIV-VITI 641-2020, have approved the OIV Guide for the implementation of principles of sustainable vitiviniculture. This guide complements and updates all OIV recommendations in the area of sustainability.

What do you recommend to winemakers, winemaking regions due to climate change? The introduction of new varieties that can adapt to these changes?

The impacts linked to climate change imply for viticulture actions on “adaptation” and “anticipation” in order to put in place adapted cultivation practices which take into account the disturbances in the production. It is important to remember that adaptation measures must respond to both impacts on different spatial scales (local, regional and global) and also to impacts on the time scale (short, medium and long term).

In this sense, the adaptation must be done from a set of measures and not necessarily to focus in a single measure. For example:

• Practices focused on better management of soils and the canopy of the vine can make it possible to control more and better the development of the “vegetative cycle” (phenology) of the vine.
• The use of clonal selection techniques can help control differences in grape maturity. Some clones of the same variety can present a difference of 8 to 10-12 days of difference in the ripening of the grapes, which means a significant gain for the winegrower in order to better control his production.
• Regarding the use of new varieties, to be precise, this question concerns the use of new varieties and/or already existing varieties which have an “adaptation objective” of AOCs and/or more generally of winegrowing regions to the new challenges of climate change. The selection of varieties and their inclusion is part of a framework that aims to adapt, whether to climate change, to the reduction of inputs (varieties less susceptible to diseases) and/or to the reintroduction of forgotten/old varieties.

When we talk about varietal adaptation, it is a very simple concept: to choose grape varieties which we know that in some areas have better results than others; which adapt more in warm areas than in more northerly areas. If you take Syrah as an example, you will find it in the south or Grenache which you find in  areas with hot and dry climates. On the other hand, Merlot or Gamay are more suited to northern climates or Pinots.

As of 1 January 2021 the International Organisation of Vine and Wine was made up of 48 Member states. Ukraine was previously a member of the organization, but at the moment it is going through some internal procedures for joining again. Is there an exception to an accelerated OIV entry process? Please tell us what exactly does joining the OIV gives countries?

The International Organisation of Vine and Wine (OIV) is an intergovernmental organisation established under the Agreement of 3 April 2001. The 2001 Treaty effectively updates an earlier Agreement for the creation in Paris of an International Wine Office on 29 November 1924 (“the 1924 OIV Agreement”). The OIV is an intergovernmental organisation of a scientific and technical nature of recognised competence for its works concerning vines, wine and wine-based beverages, table grapes, dried grapes and other vinebased products. Article 2 of the Agreement establishes the objects and functions of the OIV. The objects are:

• to inform its members of measures whereby the concerns of producers, consumers and other players in the vine and wine products sector may be taken into consideration;
• to assist other international organisations, both intergovernmental and non-governmental, especially those which carry out standardisation activities; and
• to contribute to international harmonisation of existing practices and standards and, as necessary, to the preparation of new international standards in order to improve the conditions for producing and marketing vine and wine products, and to help ensure that the interests of consumers are taken into account.

In full accordance with the terms of reference established by Article 2.2 of the Agreement, the OIV fosters an environment that is conducive to scientific and technical innovation, the dissemination of its results and the development of the international vitivinicultural sector.

Through its recommendations, it promotes international standards and guidelines, the harmonisation and sharing of information and sound science-based knowledge, in order to improve productivity, product safety and quality and the conditions for producing marketing and trading vitivinicultural products.

In order to join the OIV as a “Member”, Ukraine as a former member of the Office and a signatory state of the Agreement of 3 April 2001 creating the “Organisation” must only address an instrument of acceptance, approval or ratification with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the French Republic, with a copy to the Director General of the OIV, and will be considered “Member” from the 30th day following this deposit.

Our winemakers currently do not have a government support, but we are ready as a media to be a link for communication. Does the organization have such a practice? Tell us please what training programs, grants have been developed by the organization for winemakers, including small winemakers (microwinemakers), the number of which, by the way, is rapidly growing in Ukraine.

Within the framework of developing its Strategic Plan, the OIV grants yearly research scholarships in priority programme fields on a yearly basis. Grants offered within the framework of this programme are short term (six months to fifteen months maximum) and are provided for specific post graduate training programmes.

Additionally, the OIV aims to launch this year (the date will depend on the evolution of the sanitary conditions) a new International Course in Ampelography, what will be an opportunity to acquire in-depth knowledge in grapevine varieties for future challenges in the vitivinicultural sector.

There is also the International Diploma of the OIV in Management of the Vine and Wine Sector: “OIV Master of Science in Wine Management”. This program is run in conjunction with the Montpellier SupAgro.

The program is organised through partnerships fostered through the OIV and runs eighteen months with thirty modules which focus on specific themes as well as a host region which is studied and visited. Each module is organised by an University or Professional Center.

The OIV undertakes research on all aspects of sustainability – environmental, economic, social and cultural. What is the latest research that the organization has conducted considering the impact of Covid-19 on the wine industry?

At the OIV there are 48 Member States, and the wine consumption patterns differ from country to country depending on factors like the length of lockdown measures, the consumption habits of the population, the elasticity of substitution between wine and other beverages, the relevance of the HoReCa channel, or the development level of the e-commerce channel. Overall, we can see that Covid19 pandemic has generated a recession that is indeed having direct and indirect effects on the sector. Not all such impacts will be permanent, but some will last, and the sector certainly needs to anticipate this.

In terms of specific product categories, the OIV has not carried out any specific study or analysis. However, what seems like a recurrent phenomenon in many countries is a drop in demand in premium wines, especially for sparkling wines. To give you an example, Champagne shipments in 2020 went down by 18% with respect to 2019 (the equivalent of 60 million fewer bottles, or one billion euros in financial losses).

One of the axis of our work today consists in assessment of to what extent the socio-economic impacts of this crisis on our sector by trying to highlight the “clean effect” of the crisis. We try to distinguish, subject by subject, whether the depressive effects observed are mainly, conversely or only marginally linked to the COVID19 crisis, whether these effects are lasting over time or are cyclical, and on what geographical scale they are observed in priority. You can find interesting insights on different strategies that were put in place since the very beginning of the crisis by some of our members from the Southern Hemishpere in this webinar.

Finally, we can suggest you to consult the website of FIVS, one of our observers. This organisation collects and publishes relevant publications on COVID19 consequences on the wine and spirits sector.

At the international level, we are seeing two trends; a shift in sales channels and a drop in demand, which in turn will lead to surplus. How do you assess this situation? How do you think the wine business will develop further? Which countries will suffer unnecessary losses and who will benefit from this situation?

In the short term, especially in the ongoing period of the pandemic, it is likely that there will be a light fall in investments, due to possible postponements and current financial constraints; however, in the medium term, the wine sector might however see a recovery to pre-pandemic growth rates. Like the 2008 crisis, this crisis seems to serve as a temporary shock to the sector and we do not expect it to affect demand in a permanent way. As far as we know, wine producers are not diverting to other types of investments.

However, this is only a preliminary foresight and it not possible to make conclusions with certainty without sufficient data. We expect to provide more definite deductions by mid-April, during our press conference and encourage the readers to tune in then for more insights.

Which wine countries, wine destinations, in your opinion, are underestimated on the world market?

The OIV does not have statistical data in this regard, but based on the webinar made by our organization and the UNWTO (World Tourism Organization) in September 2020 on “Innovation in wine tourism in the context of covid-19”, it is clear that wine tourism on the one hand has been greatly affected, but on the other it can recover faster than other segments because it is an offer that is highly adapted to a demand that we can think of will be the demands of post-covid tourism. And we must see here an opportunity. With the need to innovate and recreate wine tourism in the current context, the importance of local markets, new alliances, and outdoor experiences were highlighted. Let’s look at the example of Bordeaux. Wine tourism in this region was highly oriented towards the foreign market. With this crisis, tourism agents have quickly looked for ways to attract national visitors. Not only have local markets been seen to be important. Once again, digitalisation has allowed an opening to new customers. With the appearance and increase of digital tastings, or interactive visits, for example, it has been possible for customers from all over the world to participate in online activities, regardless of where they are based.

Instead of considering there are underestimated wine destinations, we must base wine tourism on three key points: diversity, rural areas and very strong cultural ties. A better understanding of customers to offer a personalised experience and achieving the right balance between technology and human contact are key factors. It is true that digital modifications are here to stay. Along with these changes, the improvement of local tourism is essential for recovery and with this there is more room to meet the demands of sustainable tourism.

What trends, tendencies do you see in the development of the world winemaking. Name 10 or more, please.

Regarding those tendencies, we could highlight:

• The commitment with sustainability,
• The improvement of digitalisation,
• E-commerce
• The growing importance of rural areas,
• Labelling transparency,
• The growing impact of new markets , notably the Asian market
• The improvement and emergence of new vitivinicultural regions
• The new formats in packaging
• Relevant health concern of consumers on alcoholic drinks
• The increasing social concern of the production and the industry in alcoholic sales.

Photo:  International Organisation of Vine and Wine

Editor-in-chief of Drinks+ managed to interview Director General of the International Organisation of Vine and Wine (OIV) Pau Roca.

The famous Bocuse d’Or competition is now in Ukraine. The Drinks + observer spoke with the person who brought the world’s main gastronomic show to our country. Evgeniy Korolev, chef of the author’s cuisine restaurants Winovnik and 4-Tower in Dnipro, founder and owner of the Bocuse d’Or Ukraine brand, told us, how the competition would be held. Additionally, he broached many other interesting aspects.

Drinks+: Evgeniy, you have over a decade of experience in Michelin-starred European restaurants, won the Gourmet Cup in Germany in 2019 and ranked among the top three young chefs, according to JRE Germany; in 2019, you were among the top 3 young chefs in Central Europe according to the international culinary school ALMA Italy; you received the Young Chef Award 2019 and are the Chief Ambassador of San Pellegrino. In 2020, for the first time in the history of the Ukrainian gastronomy, you created Ukraine’s national and youth teams and brought them to the International Exhibition of Culinary Art World aka Culinary Olympic Games (Internationale Kochkunst Ausstellung – IKA). And now Bocuse d’Or Ukraine, where you are the founder and brand owner. Which of these steps was the most difficult and why?

Evgeniy Korolev:  Frankly speaking, all awards and recognitions are never given for nothing. Any entry into the rating or competition is a result of hard working on a daily basis. Over the past five years, I have managed to take part in eight international culinary competitions, and I can say that reaching the Culinary Olympic Games (IKA) in 2020 was the most difficult task!

Due to a very short period of time allocated for training, my team and I, having arrived at the Olympics, were faced with huge problems in our preparation. At some point, we realized that for technical reasons, we would not even be able to participate or meet the timing. To this day, I don’t know how we managed, but we performed well in our nominations.

As for Bocuse d’Or Ukraine, this is a very interesting and complex project that requires tremendous preparation. The team and I started organizing the competition back in 2020, and at the present moment, everything is going smoothly according to the elaborated plan.

D+: You have worked with such masters as Alain Ducasse and Wojciech Amaro. Tell us about these gastronomy gurus: how are they working, what is the atmosphere in their kitchens, and what is their philosophy? What have you learned from these pros?

Evgeniy Korolev: It is a common practice in all top restaurants that the chef does not always have an opportunity to be in the kitchen due to his or her high workload. Experienced sous-chefs supervise all processes in the kitchen. I had an opportunity to work with Alan Ducasse only a few times; he is very charismatic, kind, and always ready to help and give an advice. Often, he would just stand and tell why and for what reasons it was important to do it this way and not otherwise. We had been working with Wojciech  Amaro quite often; I should say that he is strict and demanding. He spoke little, made us think, read and form our own opinion about a product or process. As a result of working at Benoit restaurant, I gained an understanding of the chef’s philosophy and respect to the product and the profession. At Atelier Amaro, I learned how to apply various modern techniques, to deal with product combinations and serving dishes.

D+: What attracts you in the chef’s profession: an opportunity to experiment, you enjoy your food or enjoy teaching others?

Evgeniy Korolev: Of course, I am a lover of good food. I give preference to the restaurants with original cuisine. Experiments in the kitchen are a key to success! Working with a product, combining and practicing techniques … without this, we will stop developing.

I adhere to my own style at Winovnik, and my principles are: working with high-quality seasonal products, using various techniques and combinations and, of course, non-standard serving. In the future, I would like to open a restaurant with the same concept and author’s style, but to prepare a menu in a seven-nine-course set format, without adhering to a la’carte menu.

D+: In January 2020, you signed an agreement for establishment of the Bocuse d’Or Competition in Ukraine. Can you please tell us, how it all started, how this idea occurred to you?

Evgeniy Korolev:  It all started with my participation in international competitions, after which representatives of Bocuse d’Or from other countries invited me to apply for participation. Unfortunately, according to international rules, I could only do this from the country of which I am a citizen, that is, from Ukraine, where, let me remind you, Bocuse d’Or did not exist at that time. Later, the German organization introduced me to the representatives of the Bocuse d’Or headquarters in Lyon. For about three months, we were discussing the possibility of my participating in, or holding, the competition in Ukraine. One fine day, the headquarters’ director called me and offered to head the establishment of the competition in our country, however, on the condition that I would return to Ukraine and would never again be able to take part in the competition as a chef. One of the priority tasks was to organize a presentation of the project, including analysis of the country’s gastronomic market, the best restaurants and chefs, prospects, potential and development vector of the Ukrainian gastronomy in the world. The second stage included the project’s defense before the Bocuse d’Or committee in Lyon. Later, the project data were verified and corruption screening was held, as well as a  number of meetings in Ukraine, and negotiations at different levels; as a result, Ukraine was warmly received into the Bocuse d’Or family.

D+: Did any significant difficulties or problems arise at the stage of conclusion of the contract?

Evgeniy Korolev: The most difficult thing was waiting for the next answer from the headquarters and a series of new questions. I did not know, what they were paying attention to, when checking the information, and what they were guided by. Frankly speaking, Bocuse d’Or corporation and GLEX organizers were initially well disposed to Ukraine’s joining their family, so the French side did not create any problems or difficulties and always showed solidarity and loyalty. But at the same time, I would emphasize extremely difficult terms of the franchise and the rules of participation for chefs, which are not so easy to adapt to the realities of our country.

D+: Can you disclose a few names of the Ukrainian chefs who applied for participation in the competition, because the applications are already being accepted, aren’t they?

Evgeniy Korolev: We did not expect that the number of applications seeking participation in the first year’s competition will be so huge. According to the regulations of our organization, we have no right to disclose any information about the contestants before adoption of the official decision regarding preliminarily qualified participants, which is to be published on the Bocuse d’Or Ukraine website on June 1. I can say that the names of the majority of candidates are well known to the Ukrainian gastronomic community.

D+: In what format will Bocuse d’Or take place in Ukraine? It will be something like Sirha sites?

Evgeniy Korolev: My team and I are organizing the largest exhibition for representatives of the hotel and restaurant business. We plan to make several zones, one of which will host the final stage of the national selection Bocuse d’Or. Other zones will host an exhibition of official partners, HoReCa representatives, master classes, lectures and seminars, speaker zones, an entertainment zone, a photo zone, a zone of craft producers and much more.

D+:  As a chef who has gained an extensive experience, do you notice any qualitative changes in the Ukrainian wine market? How do you feel about including Ukrainian brands into the restaurants’ wine lists?

Evgeniy Korolev: Certainly, I do! If we compare the level of Ukrainian winemaking, which existed five to ten years ago, we may see that by the present stage, some domestic producers have considerably grown. Naturally, it is difficult for us to compete with the wines of the Old World, given their history of winemaking, terroir, weather and climatic conditions, but in the near future, more and more decent Ukrainian wines will have been produced. I can only recommend to be very active in replenishing the restaurants’ wine lists with Ukrainian wines in order to support the local producers and expand the choices available for guests.

D+:  Can you please tell the stakeholders, how the competition will be held and what awaits the winners.

Evgeniy Korolev: It is not for nothing that Bocuse d’Or is considered to be the most difficult competition, and the candidate’s preparation time is the key. In other words, as you prepare, so you will perform. Bocuse d’Or is not about improvisation and luck. All trainings, preparation, experience and concentration must be demonstrated during the competition.

The team of participants includes a chef (over 23 years old) and an assistant (under 23 years old). The Competition’s tasks include the preparation of two courses of 14 servings each, where the fish dish is served in portions on plates, the meat dish is served on a special presentation plate, and later served on the plates. The competition will take 5 hours and 35 minutes. Participation in the competition is free, the organizer bears the costs of travel and accommodation for the participants, and also provides all necessary equipment, inventory and products. All participants will receive prizes from partners and the organizer. The bronze medal winner: UAH 25 thousand, the silver medal winner: UAH 50 thousand, and the winner of Bocuse d’Or Ukraine will receive a prize of UAH 100 thousand and will take part in the European Bocuse d’Or final in 2022, where, together with the team, he or she will represent Ukraine at the international arena.

D+: What do you and your team expect from the first Bocuse d’Or in Ukraine? What parameters will measure the success achieved and at what point can you say: well, here it comes, the victory?

Evgeniy Korolev: Organizing an event of this scale requires a huge investment of time, resources and funds, therefore it is very important for us to hold this competition at the highest European level, since we invite an international jury and the headquarters’ [representatives]. I would very much like to hold a Bocuse d’Or Europe Final in Ukraine in the coming years, so we approach each organizational moment very seriously and discreetly.

It is important for us to create the most comfortable conditions for candidates, so that the guys can concentrate only on the processes of cooking. In the near future, we will begin to conduct master classes for candidates in order to prepare them as much as possible for the competition. One of the most important indicators of success will be the chefs’ involvement in the competition and their willingness to participate in the next national shortlisting. Well, the best indicator of success will be the Ukrainian team’s victory at the Bocuse d’Or Europe Final in Lyon!

The Drinks+ observer spoke with the person who brought the world’s main and popular gastronomic show Bocuse d’Or to our country.

Text: Anna Gorkun, СЕО and Owner of 46 Parallel Wine Group

What is WSET, who needs a diploma from the British school, how education is regarded by employers and whether it affects salaries?

Within a framework of the author’s project “Wine Hub with Anna Gorkun”, a conversation about these and other related issues was held with Ekaterina Yushchenko, Director and Certified Educator of the Ukrainian Wine & Spirit School, a certified provider of the programme of the British School WSET (London), a member of the Association of Sommeliers of Ukraine and tasting commissions of the Ukrainian and international wine competitions. Anna Gorkun learned from Ekaterina Yushchenko how WSET courses were launched in Ukraine, how many levels they have, and why they not only enhance the graduate’s qualification up to the level of an international expert, but also directly affect such graduate’s salary. In addition, Anna also got to know why, being a financier, Ekaterina had forever thrown her lot with winemaking and how she was successfully combining sports and wine.

The story of how the WSET program was launched in Ukraine is not a new one, but nevertheless my question is – how did it emerge in your life?

Initially, I did not plan to engage myself with wine. At the time, I was graduating from the Kharkiv National University named after Karazin, the Faculty of Finance and Credit, as well as from the Institute of Foreign Languages, and my interest in wine was superficial like it was for many other persons. A few years later, I was lucky to meet the guys who were au fait with the winemaking, and they introduced me to this. Thereupon, we decided to start importing, which implied a further deep dive into the wine. I presume that if you work with a product, you should deal with the issue seriously. Thereupon, we chose the WSET format for training and, to our great surprise, found that Ukraine was not on the list of the countries where this program had a representative office. I wanted to share this valuable knowledge in my native country. Thus, in 2015, we had been certified to become WSET providers in Ukraine.

How is WSET working?

Students are trained and certified according to the same standards applicable in all countries. The educational materials and tasting facilities are identical to the British ones, and the entire educational process is clearly regulated. They teach how to teach, in a very structured and consistent manner. The stuff but not the fluff. Thus, WSET enables everyone who comes into contact with the wine as a commercial product to gain the unified knowledge system that allows them to speak the same language with anyone – either a distributor from Hong Kong or a supplier from Africa.

What are the WSET levels available and whom would you recommend each of such levels to?

WSET has four levels in total. I would recommend the first one to everyone – just for themselves. The second level gives more fundamental knowledge. The students and I are tasting a lot. The course is good because there is no analytics yet, but we are already digging deeply: terroir, varieties, as well as special features of soils, and we are discussing potential. It is adequate for both professionals and amateurs. At the second level, it is good to go through the main descriptors for tastings, so that at the third level, you no longer think about theory, but focus on analytics and forecasts. Therefore, the third level is great for producers, because there is a deep dive into the technological process: trimming, cutting, soil, sampling, and acidity. It is noteworthy that this course is attended by both lawyers and doctors, as well as by numerous representatives of the spheres related to winemaking. However, I would not draw any distinct boundaries: this course is suitable for sommeliers, and it is also suitable for importers, as well as  housewives. The fourth level implies absolute analytics, trends, forecasts, marketing, legal aspects, and tendencies. You are no longer a consumer, you are a market player, which means that you are already generating demand yourself.

Nowadays, there are many schools, sommelier courses and the like, but only your school has a truly international context. I remember when we studied at WSET, many guys who went on to work on cruise ships shared their opinion that this particular certificate was very important for them, since it was highly regarded by the employers. Is it true that the WSET diploma helps one to prove their qualifications and be eligible for a salary increase?

Indeed, there are many wine schools and they are all great and they all differ from each other. In our case, you get knowledge about everything – yes, with different depths, but you have no gaps. The volume of knowledge, even if you came as an already accomplished professional, expands significantly. But if we are talking about the WSET diploma itself as a tool for monetizing the knowledge gained, it should be pointed out that it is definitely highly regarded in the market. This is confirmation that you have gained the knowledge of unique program, which is presented in 80 countries and is taught according to standards in 17 languages. This is an evidence that you are an international specialist.

Personal observation: When you open the WSET Level 3 tutorial, a great number of specific terms is scary. Is it really necessary to present this material in such a detail and what pills does one need to take in order to digest this material?

In fact, everything is much simpler. If a person has an analytical mindset, he or she will be able, without much of a hassle, to digest the material offered by the British [school]. The important thing is that they do not give too much, so that it does not distract attention from the most important things. But it should be understood that out of the four levels of WSET training, only the first three are represented in Ukraine. We provide registration, teaching and organization of exams, but review of the exam papers and awarding of diplomas – all these stages are the responsibility of the London WSET.

Broaching such issue as you and wine… you and sports. How did you manage to combine the two passions – for wine and sports? Accidentally, having analysed your achievements in sports, it becomes clear that it is not just a hobby, rather it is a titanic work!

It is simple. Trivial health problems have brought me into sports – I am a mother of three children, and I have not been able to avoid the problems with my back. However, I replaced the endless health clinic-hopping with gym exercises and began to strengthen the muscle corset. With lapse of time, I realized that I wanted to do it with full dedication – in fact, it is my life principle. Thereupon, I developed a passion for the aesthetic vector and was nominated for participating in the fitness bikini contest, where I was ranked first. But in this case, the victory was not the main achievement, and the key aspect was that I set the bar so high for myself that I could no longer afford to relax. Now, sport is a part of my life. However, at the present stage, the aesthetic vector has been replaced by the functional one: I mean various competitions (Sportan, Race Nation, and DikoGonka). This is a real drive, adrenaline. Believe me, all this absolutely peacefully coexists with a passion for wine and everything related to it.

What is WSET, who needs a diploma from the British school, how education is regarded by employers and whether it affects salaries?

D+ managed to talk with Ricardo F. Nunez, the owner of the Vinos de La Luz group of companies, which unites wineries in Spain, Italy, Argentina.

D+: Mr. Nunez, this is not the first interview that you have kindly given to our publications. But you see the wine world in all its diversity and you can evaluate it from different points of view. So every time, behind the scenes, there was still a long series of questions. Today, if I may, we will ask some of them.

Ricardo F. Nunez: I hope to have answers for all!

D+: You have always said that wine was the passion of your life. But how did it all begin? Was your family involved in winemaking? Today you are a man of the world, you travel a lot, live for a long time in different countries, and what traditions of wine consumption exist in your historical homeland?

R.F.N.: Please look at this photo.  It  is  from  1926,  that  is,  it is almost 100 years old, and I hope your dear readers do not see it as just a piece of antique. There are my grandparents, my father, my uncle, and  my  two   aunts. In that year, my grandparents had 16 years of having arrived to Argentina as Spanish immigrants, more specifically, as Galician immigrants, because they were from the heart of Spanish Galicia. When they had barely known each other, they both worked as day laborers, and traveled around Spain, following the harvests of grains, fruits, vegetables and grapes for wine. They were economically poor, but they also lived in a country that, before the First World War, offered them a little future.

They knew how to work on the land and there was a place where there was plenty of land and it was already a legend among the Spaniards, Italians, and many nations of Europe: it was Argentina. They went there with nothing in their pockets in the third class of a ship that took them 33 days to arrive to the point of their destination. A few days after arrival, they were already working in La Pampa, a place 800 kilometers from the port of Buenos Aires. They worked for five years as peasants, dealing with the cereal and peanut crops. I remember this about the peanut harvest, because my grandmother told me that it was the hardest to do, since they had to collect the peanuts kneeling in dozens of hectares. But I never heard them complaining about it.

One day, my grandfather learned  that  the  government of the Province of Mendoza offered to immigrants a land in the mountains for free, but on the condition that they would grow grape plants on the land. My grandparents didn’t hesitate for a second, and there they went. That’s wonderful. They were assigned more than 200 hectares at 1,100 meters above sea level at the base of the Andes Mountains, where everything was wild and could be reached by horse-drawn carts.

Twenty years ago I took over the family winery, and here we are: I am a retired banker and active wine producer.

However, there was a reason why grandparents chose that; in Spain, they had been vine growers in the region of Castilla y León, more precisely, in Peñafiel, which today is the heart of Ribera del Duero. So, that’s where it all started. My destination was not the vineyards, but the University. I had to be a «doctor» with a degree. I did what my parents wanted, maybe I did a little more than they wanted, and we kept the vineyards and the first winery until the moment I decided to develop the wine business again, that is, I returned to my first love. You see, it’s a short story, which is only a hundred years old.

D+: How did you study winemaking? Did you know right away that you would be a winemaker or got another profession?

R.F.N.: There is a big difference between being a winemaker and being a wine producer. I am lucky to have one of the best teams of winemakers that can be created, and although I live touring vineyards and wineries, getting into all the details; though, it is almost like an obsession, because I am annoying everyone with my shadow behind them, breathing so close that they can feel my healthy lungs, I   am not literally a winemaker, I am a wine producer. I am sure about everything I have learned from this activity, I know more or less a lot about many things, but they have a privilege: they are winemakers with their feet muddy with vines, and with a great knowledge of the technology in cement and steel tanks, and they know that you have to caress the barrels with your voice every day. They have that talent with which they are born, and they deliver it to Vinos de La Luz in all the countries where we are present. Right now, I’m thinking that they are more obsessive than me.

 La Luz Del Duero Winery

D+: We know that you were engaged in financial activities were they unrelated to wine? What was it?

R.F.N.: First, I went  to the University  and  graduated as a lawyer, but I had a problem: I couldn’t charge a fee for my work because it didn’t cost me anything to do it for people; that means that I didn’t see this work as aimed at building wealth, rather solving legal conflicts. And one day, almost reluctantly, I was developing financing systems for people with scarce resources, those who did not qualify for a traditional loan, and when I could rest easy, in 1989, the world economy changed, the Berlin wall opened the doors to huge markets, and I started in Central Europe what I thought was going to be my “last stage”. Incidentally, it did not appear to be the last one. Twenty years ago I took over the family winery, and here we are: I am a retired banker and active wine producer.

Schloss Vollrads, Germany 

D+: The chronicle says that one day you learned that there was one winery for sale in Argentina, and you bought it. Was it Finca La Luz? What exactly attracted you in it?

R.F.N.: I heard that story, but it is not exactly what happened. 22 years ago, the winery in Argentina, which had 70 hectares left of the initial 200, had no management; a few of us who were of my generation were scattered around the world. Yet a decision had to be made. Perhaps, the easiest thing would have been to continue drinking the best wines, but, to be honest, I would have lived in great fear of ever meeting my grandparents and my parents to whom I had to explain that I had let the family winery go to the “other hands”. It helped me a lot to have a global vision of the world, especially from the center of the geography of the Earth, that is to say, the Central Europe, and it took me only a month to make the decision to re-take the winery. But just as that global vision led me to that, it also led me  to project a world development program which is not over yet. One day, in 2012, I was standing on the land with nothing planted on it (it was at the foot of Mount Helon, in Ningxia Province, China) and I was negotiating to plant the Argentinian Malbec vineyards and build a winery, very close to the one created by Chandon.

There I realized that I had not slept in 36 hours, and I had been flying for 24 hours out of those 36 hours; that I was not Chandon, and the team that had arrived with me was looking at me as if they were asking me: “Who of us will be relocated here?” Then, I said to myself: «We should have come 20 years ago», and decided to limit the development program to its origin, that is, wineries in the old wine world, in the middle age wine world and in the new world, under a single quality denominator, which we had called Vinos de La Luz. By the way, the name of Finca La Luz is still owned by a parcel in Mendoza, which is limited by La Luz Street, but it is a coincidence, because Vinos de La Luz – Wines of the Light – has always been the best way to name a set of wineries that applied transparent protocols.

D+: Doctor Nunez, the wines from your wineries are in great demand in the world, and numerous wines that come from your wineries are intended entirely for export. This experience, as well as your business and legal practices enable you to see the processes in 3D. Lately, we have been witnessing changes in the sales methods; this is particularly relevant to futures. Can you comment on the pros and cons of futures?

R.F.N.: This topic is very interesting, because it looks like it begins to change the sales methods of the most famous French wineries. When a large winery abandons the sales system called “en primeur”, it is because it realizes that a large part of the profit produced by the efforts of many years is taken away by the financiers advancing money at a price of the wine that is going to be delivered within a few years. It has been a tool to ensure the sale of the entire harvest and have fresh money in the bank, without major headaches. I never adopted that system because we build everything with our own capital and we are not wrong. Sooner or later, the one who does not have enough capital, depends on a bank or a distributor, who advances funds.

For example, nowadays, in Argentina we have four geographies where we produce grapes and two where we make wines. Those are unique places due to their «terroir», which can be hardly defined using words, but we all know what it means. Without capital, we would never have risked having wines at 1400 meters, such as the Gualtallary estate, or Altamira, or Pampa El Cepillo, or Vista Flores, which are denominations of origin limited in their extension, very strict in terms of their standards of production, but they have given us wines that do not fall below 93 points and some of them have reached 97 points. These «parcel wines» can only be made in own vineyards and by cutting the plant so that it gives us less, even tears are falling on our faces after each cut. Vinos de La Luz – Wines of the Light – has always been the best way to name a group of wineries that applied transparent protocols.

Photo: Andrey Cherlat

D+: How do you select such talented oenologists, at what moment do you understand – yes, this is my man?

R.F.N.: It is a group that has been formed over the years, which does not talk about “the wineries” but about “our wineries”, and that is made up of winemakers who were already famous such as Roberto Cipresso in Italy, who has just made a 98-point Brunello, or others who are wellknown today and have received awards, such as Noelia Mena (Spain) or Pablo Navarrete (Argentina). Another part of the group includes land engineers, sommeliers, marketing specialists, sales specialists and communication specialists. We are a small army under the flag of Vinos de La Luz. Each country has its style, but the wines have a similar quality.

Perhaps it is better to explain this with an example: in 2018, we sent several wines from our wineries in three countries to compete at the Berliner Wine Trophy in Germany, which is held pursuant to the standards of the OIV. They all won a gold medal, none won a double gold medal, but none won a silver medal, either. That is to say, that the gold medal awarded to six wines from three different countries marked the quality line that Vinos de La Luz should toe. We would have liked to win a double gold medal, but perhaps we would have opted for the style of one wine and not another. In this way that year we confirmed the quality because the six gold medal wines were chosen among 9000 wines from around the world. The other example is Iluminado Single Vineyard that we have made in Argentina, Spain and Italy.

In different international competitions, they received 97, 95 and 95 points. That is uniform quality in high quality. It is clear that there is a reason and it is the application of the same production protocols in different regions and grapes. It’s that part of talent that I talked about earlier, and it makes the people in our team dedicate part of their time to teaching at school of winemakers and universities.

They are talents that must be respected, because they are also a little bit crazy. For example, in Mendoza, we had 16 hectares without plantations and we preferred to dedicate our efforts to developing another geography. Then, Pablo Navarrete said: “Here, we are going to plant “garlic”; for two harvests he has achieved a record output per hectare with a garlic that we call “Garlic La Luz”. So, in this group, it seems that there is more than one crazy person, but so far they are successful crazy people.

 Vinos de La Luz Winery, Uco Valley, Argentina

D+: In Argentina, Spain and Italy, the wines of the umbrella brand Iluminado are created with the same DNA Vinos de La Luz. Of course, we are talking about a single, highest level of quality. But, perhaps, you are trying to achieve a certain general style: if so, can you tell us with what technological methods?

R.F.N.: Vinos de La Luz is the umbrella, and the wines that want to be under that umbrella have to meet a series of very demanding quality requirements. Believe me, on many occasions, – it has been incomprehensible to me that the team did not accept a wine that seemed very good to me, and they believed – sometimes there was no unanimity among them – that we should not incorporate it as a bottled wine from La Luz, and it should be sold in bulk to another producer. However, when they explained the reasons to me, it was logical to understand. Then, the 97 Decanter London points appeared for Iluminado Single Vineyard Paraje Altamira Malbec 2015; there upon, things began to settle on their own, because when you approach 100 points, that is, a perfect wine, you cannot afford going for less. For this very reason, I defend the group’s criteria as if they were mine, even though they weren’t born from me, but from their talent. They are of a special breed, born for the quality wine.

With Pablo Navarette and Noelia Mena in vineyards of Mendoza

D+: Your wines collect a whole constellation of awards. How you make a decision, in which competition to participate?

R.F.N.: Everyone knows this phrase: «The best wine is the one you like the most», but this is true only for your own taste. However, when wines are a product of a certain style, of a particular philosophy pursued by a winery and they are novelties that want to surprise, one wants to know, what third parties – those in the know – say. That is why quality testing has to go through independent professionals and specialized consumers, whether they are winemakers, sommeliers, wine journalists, or producers. You can bring them together in a focus group but you will never have the opinion of a large international group – from different countries – and highly specialized. That guarantee is granted by serious international competitions and offered by independent international specialists. Vinos de La Luz has 90% of its wines awarded or scored in competitions with blind tastings and under international standards. We have many gold medals, many wines above 93 points, and up to 97 points, but we have not yet reached 100. We have a wine classified as one of the best 50 wines in the world in 2019, but we have not yet reached the wine that would be considered perfect (100 points) Vino de La Luz.

In Georgia

D+: Your company has been present on the Ukrainian market for many years. You opened a representative office, and then a chain of Wine Gallery boutiques. How are things going?

R.F.N.: A year ago, we partnered at Wine Gallery with Georgia’s Shilda Winery and a major local partner; it should be pointed out that the three of us knew each other and were related for many years. We decided to establish ourselves with our own importing and distributing company, which already has a business model in place despite the pandemic. Wine Gallery has already opened three of its own stores in Kyiv – well located and well designed – where it sells our Italian, Spanish, Argentinean and Georgian wines from Shilda, but also has a wide range of good brands that we are importing or buying from other importers. We have a very good sales team, but also Vinos de La Luz has its own Brand Ambassador in Ukraine, who is working to support the brand development in the region. I should say that she is a good ambassador indeed: very active and intelligent; in addition, she – Nataliia Burlachenko – is writing for Drinks+.

D+: While we’re on the subject of the wine trade, let me quote Robert Joseph talking about the changes associated with the pandemic: “The only thing I’m still confident about is the growth of digital communication as well as distribution. I sincerely believe that in the near future the huge wine walls in supermarkets will be a thing of the past». What is your forecast?

R.F.N.: I believe that the pandemic is just one more round of a fight that has been taking place silently at first, and then continued, with many explosions, for several years. The appearance of large sales platforms has, perhaps, been the moment of greatest friction between traditional distribution and the one supported by artificial intelligence technology. However, nowadays, producers are almost 90% linked with the online marketing. We have divided our sales into direct sales, sales to distributors (which imply sales via national places where wineries are installed), general online stores, specialized online stores, our own online stores, sales to importers (implying meetings during which one can see the other participants’ faces through various online meeting systems). We have had 6 or 7 international «exhibitions and fairs», from country to country, via Zoom in 2020; it should be emphasized that these events were organized due to the technology companies that create the so-called «augmented reality» platform, and put our brand ambassadors and commercials standing with their products and serving registered buyers for one or two days.

Vinos de La Luz is the umbrella, and the wines that want to be under that umbrella have to meet a series of very demanding quality requirements.

With Roberto Cipresso in Peñafiel, on La Luz del Duero winery

The importer, who already knows, whether a winery behind that wine is serious or not – because today everything is known – will ask you for a sample, and the latter can be in the hands of your potential customer within 48 hours. There is another aspect that is going to change and it is the resistance of countries to accepting a free exchange of wines and spirits. The world is going to be transformed into a great free shop existing in numerous clouds, where the locals will be the countries, and which we may enter and leave without traveling. Tariff barriers will be lifted due to the pressure of online systems and physical distribution will be made from warehouses installed by self-managed vehicles. How much time is left? It depends on the vaccine, and how long the world will consider this stage to have been completed, but the foundations are laid.

D+: Do you think single varieties wines or a trend behind blends will develop? What varieties do you think are the most promising today?

R.F.N.: I believe that the world of wine is opening its doors to the recovery of indigenous varieties, which will take their place alongside the grapes that everyone knows and are planted at the same time in several countries. I also believe that when countries have a successful indigenous variety, they will have credentials so that the other varieties that they cultivate and are cultivated in other countries, may be called by them, using the name of their specific country. What about the varieties which are similar to Malbec and are coming from France, Argentina, Spain, and Chile? Is it because of the genetics? I have doubts that the genetic origin dominates over the terroir. The truth is that the bottles should distinguish the French Malbec from the Argentinean Malbec, the Spanish Malbec, etc. As to the varieties, which are unique for several countries, they will be defeated by the local terroir. And each terroir is different. We are irreversibly going to value wines identifiable by their origin. Thus, let us put that on the label because this is how we educate the consumer. In our case, the seal and logo of Vinos de La Luz serve as our quality credentials.

D+: Traditional question: what plans does the head of Vinos de La Luz have?

R.F.N.: Right now we are involved in ten programs. Wine, liquids and technologies. Terroirs developments. I will definitely tell you next year, if your readers agree.

Photos provided by Vinos de La Luz

D+ managed to talk with Ricardo F. Nunez, the owner of the Vinos de La Luz group of companies, which unites wineries in Spain, Italy, Argentina.

Danу Rolland, one of the most talented and respected oenologists in the world, shared her working principles in the wine business, her memories, experience and own winemaker rules. About personal and professional – in an exclusive interview for D+.

D+: Mrs. Dany Rolland, before becoming a successful student of the Faculty of Oenology at the University of Bordeaux and graduating from it, you received a medical education. That was your parents’ decision? Who were they? Why did you change your profession and decide to connect your life with wine?

Dany Rolland: No, medicine was a personal choice until my parents preferred pharmacy. A real vacation for me. I studied for 2 years and in 1968, due to the student’s revolution of May, we didn’t pass the exams. In the same time, some friends were studying pharmacy but also oenology because their parents had officine in the countryside. I ask what does mean Oenology? At this time, I didn’t really drink wine, but the chemistry in between the grape and, at the end the wine was a very interesting subject and a way for me to try to understand this adventure, unique for a fruit, to start as a fruit and finish as a cultural drink, which cross the time, and give so much pleasure and inspiration.

Dany Rolland in lab in the 1980s

D+: Who is the one who had impacted you the most in your development in the wine industry? (about one of the mentors, I think I guess )

D.R.: My family was not in the wine business, and I met during my studies my future husband Michel whose parents were owners of vines for 7 generations. At that time, our mentor was one of our professors: Emile Peynaud.

D+: Having studied your biography, it seemed that some twists in your life happened just lightning fast. Remember, please, which of these events has become the most significant for you and how they changed your life?

D.R.: As oenologists, we started in buying a laboratory, one of the most renowned of Gironde. We started with bad or not great vintages from 1973 to 1981. 1982 was the start of a great story for Bordeaux, with also the fact to meet Robert Parker since 1983. And also during the 80th, the first proposals of consulting outside for Michel: California in 1987, and Argentina in 1988.

D+: Let us recall Catherine Péré-Vergé – a legendary figure in Pomerol. Please tell us about your friendship – if I am not mistaken, largely thanks to meeting you, Catherine started to make wine in Pomerol. What has Catherine changed/brought to your professional life?

D.R.: Catherine Péré-Vergé was for us, Michel and I and our daughters, a wonderful friend. We were very close when she decided to invest in Pomerol starting with Ch. Montviel. We have also a personnel partnership: at this time she was a co-owner of Cristallerie d’Arques, and on the market, there was no glass for tasting and drinking that was really acceptable. We decided to create one: I tasted a lot of wines in different glasses and organized a “cahier des charges” to design one with all the qualities we were expecting. And her company made the glass called Oenologue”. It was 25 years ago. After we were also very close when we decided to invest in Argentina and she was the first to say Ok, Go.

Dany and Michel in Château Fontenil, 1986 

D+: In 1997 you moved to Château Fontenil – were you interested first in Château, and then in the vineyard? As far as we know, the vines of the Château are 45 years old – did you keep everything or did you change some?

D.R.: At this time, we were living above the lab in Libourne. That was easier when daughters were going to elementary school. But we needed space and we were looking for a house in the countryside. We found Fontenil, with 10 hectares of vines around. Why not? We were knowing very well this appellation of Fronsac, loving the soils and landscapes, less expensive than Saint Emilion, but with a lot of similarities. Now  there are 71 producers in Fronsac covering 840 hectares and in Canon Fronsac – 33 producers covering 280 hectares. We bought in 1986, everything was wrong, house, cellars… a lot of works! The house was in a derelict state; everything had to be replaced, but the view over the valley was superb and… seven hectares of vines were also for sale – historically attached to Château Le Faure Haut-Normand.

The overall picture, together with the well, resembled the quaint corner of a little village. This place had a soul, but needed a body to accompany the soul. That would be the veritable challenge and the work of many years’ labor as well as immense effort and at times sacrifices. But vines were in good condition, old and interesting to make good wines. Regarding the vines, overall, they are on average older than 40 years. Some of them do not have a precise date noted on the grape variety declaration: they were planted prior to the 1950’s.

In 1997 after construction and renovation work over a three years period, we finally moved into the house for Michel’s 50th Birthday (December).

D+: We know that most of your vines are Merlot, is it true that to work with this grape variety is very simple?

D.R.: I don’t understand what you mean by “simple”, because like Pinot Noir, these two grape varieties need soils, climate and much more care than Cabernet Sauvignon which can grow anywhere in the world.

D+: What is your favorite variety in principle – if you look globally, without reference to France?

D.R.: My favorite variety is merlot because I “married” Pomerol when I married Michel, but I love also Cabernet Franc in Bordeaux and Syrah from East France, and so many good wines with so many varieties, as Malbec in Argentina.

D+: What can you say about a permission to cultivate Petit Verdot in Pomerol as a way to adapt to climate changes?

D.R.: In Medoc Petit Verdot is used in very small percentage, to complete blend cabernet sauvignon and merlot, but I don’t think it has a real interest in Pomerol for the blend and specially concerning the climate.

D+: Which vintages of Château Fontenil are the most iconic for you?

D.R.: 2000, 2001, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015, 2016, 2018.

D+: You are involved in all wine making processes at Château Fontenil. Tell us please about Château Fontenil wines. Does Mr. Michel Rolland take part in the wine production processes, help you? Or is it exclusively your project? Why Château Fontenil wines have just such a system of vinification: with a whole bunch, fermentation and aging. Apparently, the decision came as a result of many years’ experience?

D.R.: I am more at the Château than Michel who travels more, but all the decisions are taken together, and now with our daughters who love to work with us for blending, communication, or others subjects: Fontenil is a family home.  The real technological evolution at Château Fontenil began in 1999-2000. Construction of a new barrel cellar, which also contained 3 oak vats of 60 hectolitres – a folly for the appellation – but Fontenil was worth it fully! Installations in the vinification cellar: stainless steel vats of 57 and 80 hectolitres in capacity, all equipped with reversible thermo-regulation. Using adapted crates (baskets) for grapes – double sorting tables, before and after destemming. Modernising and decorating of a tasting room and guest rooms for our clients and journalists.

From 1999 to 2010, practically only good vintages, a quality revolution! In each one of the parcels the selections are carried out with more and more precision. Each batch of grapes – hand-picked into small crates at optimum ripeness – is sorted before and after destemming, and then vinified separately (as whole berries or crushed or even whole bunches) in the wooden vats, with manual punching down, or in the stainless steel vats, with the gentlest possible pumping over. After 6 to 8 days of cold stabilisation, follows a period of long maceration (up to 40 days), which resembles an infusion more than an excessive extraction. All fermentation takes place with indigenous yeasts and without any additives; BIO without shouting about it from the roof tops. Here, material has to be mastered; the tastings and the analytical controls are both numerous and continuous. Half the new wine is run off into new oak barrels, while the must is still warm, which allows the malolactic fermentation to get under way smoothly. In the traditional way, without neglecting the advantages of high technology equipment, a delicate pressing is realized. This is perfected thanks to a JLB vertical press, which ennobles and enhances the marc juice, only too often excluded from the blend.

In 2008, the decision is taken to vinify exclusively in new oak barrels for the “Défi” and part of “Fontenil”.

D+: Could you tell us about the wine Le Defi de Fontenil – what was the story with the plastic sheets, that were protecting the vineyard from the rain, and that is why the vintage lost the right to belong to Fronsac appellation?

D.R.: The predominance of heavy and fresh soils (calcareous clay or Fronsac Molasses), combined with the fickleness of the meteorological conditions, both demand a certain knowledge and experience, as well as a daily dose of pragmatism, to temper the grape so that it can express the very best of itself. In 1999, therefore, a certain initiative seemed to us to be judicious. The laying of plastic sheets on the ground between rows, in order to avoid the penetration of water, detrimental at the end of the “veraison” (changing of the colour of the grapes), to give the grapes the opportunity to mature more fully and harmoniously, particularly on the late ripening soils of Fronsac. The experiment was planned to stretch over three years, covering a surface of approximately 1.6 hectares of Merlot on two steep parcels. This in order to be able to reuse the same tarpaulins cut to size to fit the length of the rows. This experiment represented a certain investment. Thus, in 1999, the results proved extremely convincing. The tarpaulins had been put in place on 8th August and until 25th September – harvest time. Around 120 mm of rain had fallen. The grapes were in perfect sanitary condition and considerably sweeter with a better extractability of the anthocyanins and furthermore a more advanced maturity of the pips. The results were impressive and were confirmed by the quality of the wines produced from the protected vines. Nobody, in a position of authority, took the trouble to come and taste the wine and the produce of this experiment, was directly incorporated into the wine of Fontenil. In 2000, the experiment was repeated. Two days later after the tarpaulins installation, a letter was received from the INAO (Institut National des Appellations d’Origines). INAO ordering us to remove the tarpaulins immediately, under the threat that the wine from the concerned parcels would be declassified as “table wine”. No official explanation, but for the technical commission this procedure could susceptibly alter the terroir and furthermore, was unaesthetic. No study had been undertaken by their own services… and certainly no consultation or discussion before this arbitrary decision.

As we have always thought that it is better to carry out an experiment to its conclusion in order for it to be techni – cally exploitable (on the principle of scientific methodo – logy and correlation), we kept the tarpaulins in place. As a result, in 2000, we produced 8,000 bottles of table wine; in fact a very particular kind of special cuvee. The Fontenil Challenge was born, called “Le Défi de Fontenil”. We continued and renewed the experiment with the tarpaulins in 2001 then again in 2004, for the last time. Today, the “Défi de Fontenil” remains the “cuvee de tête” (the special cuvee of Fontenil) – without tarpaulins, and therefore, without any … artifice!), still a “table wine”, or since 2009, a “Vin de France”, in order to justify its name: a true “challenge”! No vintage mentioned – merely a batch number for each one.

Château Fontenil

D+: They say that in Château Fontenil you have a secret garden. What is his mystery?

D.R.:  Who are “they”? I have a simple house called Château, like many in Bordeaux, but I love details and I am passionate and perfectionist with all about house, garden, vineyard. When I invite friends, I love lovely tables, flowers and table art, I try to make good food and serve great wines from all around the world… no secret weapon but pleasure and work.

D+: Oh, how we understand you! It seems that Pomerol, which gives the world the most status wines, is essentially very simple. Let’s say Christian Moueix states, that his Petrus is not a Chateau, as many incorrectly believe, but “just an old farmhouse.” And the owners of the famous Le Pin, Fiona Morrison and Jacques Thienpont, (with whom, as far as we know, you are friends) say that they are not the stars of the wine world at all, but only farmers. Can such an illustrious couple like you and Mr. Michel Rolland forget about fame, even among the virgin nature, and lead the life of ordinary farmers?

D.R.: Absolutely true, on Right Bank and specially in Pomerol that is younger in history regarding Fronsac or Saint-Emilion, houses are simple and people are not “Châtelains” but gentlemen farmers. But, above all we are oenologists travelling a lot with the life of people open to the world, not leaving all the year at home as owners are doing. Our life in Fronsac, it is very simple and peaceful.

D+: You have bought a number of outstanding wineries, some of them with partners. How did you select vineyards? Have you ever heard the advice: to look at them hen the rain falls, in the most difficult season, perhaps in winter?

D.R.: We just «fell in love» with some places, people or terroir during all of our travels. We started with Argentina, and now it’s our unique best project with Fontenil. We have made personnel wines in South-Africa and Spain with joint ventures, but now we focus, mainly, on Argentinian projects for outside.

D+: What is very important for you in this process – do you want to help people close to you, you are attracted to new terroirs, opportunities? Creating great wines in different parts of the world, in an unfamiliar climate – it should be extremely difficult. Please tell us about the most interesting projects of recent times.

D.R.: Regarding the consulting it’s always a challenge and more in difficult countries where climate, soils, knowledge …are not at the top like India, China…but when people want to learn and make good wines, it’s always a pleasure: good doesn’t mean great; for a great wine, we need to have all the qualities of terroirs, work and good professionals in each production sector.

D+: Do you work only with dry wines or there are sweet ones too? In what type of wines are you more interested as a winemaker?

D.R.: White and red wines, very few sweet or sparkling wines.

D+: You and Mr. Michel Rolland are known as the perfect “wine couple.” Common interests in oenology simplify life together or complicate?

D.R.: We have been working together for 47 years… Difficult to say it is or was complicate. Each of us has his own personality but we are very complementary.

D+: Do each of you have your own favorite technology, “specialization”. Let’s say, if you meet the challenge – one of you makes the decision on fermentation, and another sets the aging algorithms? Are there any disputes? Whose word is the law?

D.R.: Michel is more THE consultant and I am more at home, looking at laboratory and properties, but we are looking in the same direction regarding technologies, no challenge.

Val de Flores in Argentina

D+: Do you work with so-called natural wines, wild yeast? What do you think about this direction, as well as organics and biodynamics?

D.R.: Of course we worked with clients who are in organic or biodynamic culture and winemaking. It will be the new challenge to protect the Earth. But the final decision in this way must be taken by clients not by us. Personally, right now, we are in organic farming for our Val de Flores in Argentina. And with wild yeasts everywhere, except if a climatic or special problem require to add others.

D+: The company under the new name Rolland et Associés now will be managed by a team of oenologists, like-minded people of Mr. Michel Rolland. You and Mr. Michel Rolland now retain only a membership on the board of directors. What is the reason for this decision? Please comment on the situation.

D.R.: It’s the logical and normal evolution for a company as ours. Our oenologists have been employees, and after 20 years working together, it’s normal to give them shares for the future, and evident that they have more responsibilities, but nothing changes regarding work, and we are always present in the company business.

Dany Rolland with daughters Marie and Stephanie

D+: You are a shareholder of Rolland Collection Limited, a company that sells wines produced by all Rolland wineries. How is this business developing now, in which countries are there representatives/operators? How are your wines priced and by whom? Is there a single principle for all wineries?

D.R.: Rolland Collection is a family business and it’s our oldest daughter: Stéphanie, who is in charge of management. But all fares are discussed and fixed regarding the cost of the production and the situation of the market for all wineries. For Fontenil which is present on Bordeaux place market, Rolland Collection operates in same way than the others wine merchants.

D+: How do you feel about the en primeur system, its pros and cons for the winemaker?

D.R.: The en primeur system exists since a long time, it’s not perfect but it’s a good system for the owner and normaly for people who buy the wine. At this level, no problem for the winemaker: his work about the vintage is almost done.

D+: Could you recall the moment when you tasted the wines of Argentina for the first time? What was your first impression? As far as we know, the invitation from the winemaker Arnaldo Etchart was quite spontaneous for you. What prompted you to agree?

D.R.: It was in 1988, and Arnaldo Etchart called us to help him to make better or different wines that he made, because he wanted to sell on American market. We spontaneously accepted to visit and know/discover Argentina; and we fell in love with the country, the people, the landscapes, the possibilities to make good wines was the second challenge after California.

D+: What wines do you make today?

D.R.: We try to understand all the terroirs in all altitudes and latitudes and to adapt, our knowledge with a good viticulture. It seems we make good wines that really attract the interest of drinkers, and looking like their origins.

D+: You are pleased to take up less iconic wineries for consulting – in the USA, South Africa, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Spain, Italy and Morocco. Have you ever thought about Eastern Europe? Have you ever discussed with Mr. Michel Rolland what country is interesting in this part of the world? What can attract you?

D.R.: As consultants and with the curiosity needed for that, we are interested with all new projects, challenge but time is not extended and we have to make some choices but we found very good places and possibilities in Bulgaria and especially around Black Sea, some in Russia (visited by a collaborator but in standby due to the virus) we work in Turkey, Armenia, Croatia, Greece…)

D+: Each country has its own peculiarity – culture, mentality, attitude to winemaking. In which country and with which terroir was the most difficult/easiest to work with and why?

D.R.: Impossible to answer, we are very open minded and have very good clients in each part of the world, and very good friends too. Of course the challenge is not the same in California than in Bulgaria, making wines at 1000 $ or less than 10. Anybody in the wine business knows that.

D+: Where would you like come back?

D.R.: In our life, we have never been in Australia or New Zealand, but it’s not a pain, a small regret, life is too short, we need another one.

D+: What can you advise to your colleagues’ winemakers from France and other countries, on how to minimize losses from a pandemic and keep sales? What steps have you taken?

D.R.: If you speak about the Covid pandemic as it’s not possible to travel, we try to organize tastings/blends by video conferences. Moreover, we speak very frequently with the people of wineries or vineyards to be always in touch and to have the best reactivity.

D+: Please name the most advanced technologies, equipment -perhaps even not yet tested by you, which you would be interested to apply in production?

D.R.: Until now, a lot of evolution in high technologies was made and almost a lot of observations and questioning regarding the plant, variety, density… the future will be in the vegetal and vineyard, to have the best quality of grapes, and also in the protection of the plant and soils to find the best combination of production: quality/quantity/safety.

D+: What trends could you highlight in the wine world for today? How, in your opinion, should be the ideal modern wine – red, white? With what manufacturing techniques could we achieve for today ideal performance of wine? And what kind of aging containers do you prefer – cement, steel, oak?

D.R.: The challenge is to preserve the best taste of a grape in a particular place, to respect the identity of the wine, trying to be very gentle with it, using the right way of winemaking and giving the best content for aging: but it depends on which type of wine you want to make: simply for refreshing, easy to drink for everyone or a wine who can age and pass through the time. We try to find the best way for that in viticulture and to use the good material for each of this kind of production: freshness with steel, more complexity with cement with longer maceration, the same in oak for aging, looking at the time and the age of the barrels.

D+: Do you have any students-winemakers? If so, how long does the study last and what is the methodology, how does the study go?

D.R.: No, we can have some in the wineries during harvest to help and study but it’s not on our entire responsibility.

D+: We understand that you are the highest class consultant and your advice is paid accordingly. Nevertheless, we dare to ask a question and we will be extremely grateful if you answer: the winemaking of Ukraine is only developing now, in difficult conditions and practically (due to the loss of Crimea) without autochthonous varieties that could impress the world. What would you advise Ukrainian winemakers – in what style would it be worth making wines to stand out on the world stage and occupy your own niche?

D.R.: I don’t know perfectly this situation, but the only advice would be to try to understand their terroirs and to plant with a good viticulture, the varieties the more adapted to the climate and soil, not exclusively indigenous ones. Each variety has the taste of its terroir. And after, they have to choice the best technology to produce wines, in quality not in quantity.

D +: Thank you very much for answering all our countless questions  and for your time!

Drinks+ Blitz:

With so many projects and, apparently, relocations – how is your standard working day goes?

Before pandemic time, it was a mix between laboratory, office, family, Fontenil and travelling for representations or Argentina: second home. Now, it is more static, and with my age, I lift the foot, looking more on the properties than the laboratory and consulting. Michel continues to do that very well, always travelling (except now) but looking to his business with Bordeaux, Spain or Italian’s clients.

How do you relax, what brings you joy?

I like to read, to look for antics, to spend time with my grandchildren, to play golf (but I don’t take enough time) to relax in our vineyards, to cook, to receive friends, to make a good and lovely table…

Your favorite restaurant\dish\wine.

I love a lot of different “cuisine”: exotic or traditional, Indian or Thai food or “fusion” in Peru or Argentina, Chinese also. I love as fish and shellfish as much meat. For wine, it’s impossible to make a list: young or old wines but good, all varieties.

Your favorite holiday, how does it go?

I love travelling, discovering old and historical places, or a nice beach. But, above all spending holidays with my children in Arcachon, where I use to go since my small childhood.

What’s the most important thing in your life?

My family and making wines.

What country have you never been to but would like to visit?

A lot!  Bali (Indonesia), Vietnam, Jordan, and many others.

What are the immediate plans for Dany and Michel Rolland?

Giving our children (daughters Stephanie and Marie and their five children) a good succession, to interest them in all the wine business, to inculcate them all the experience, enthusiasm, curiosity, and respect, it’s not a very original challenge, but we hope to be safe to do that, and keep going on until the last trip…

Dany Rolland, one of the most talented and respected oenologists in the world told about personal and professional in an exclusive interview for D+.